marnes

I got a little side-tracked given there are some really good deals at Ford right now.. so I test drove some, but ultimately couldn't go there. But here's me comparing Fords to Audi...


I'll start by saying I have been on the waiting list for the redesigned 2018 Audi SQ5 for about a year now. I'm coming from the side of the fence were I value performance and luxury. I also live in Canada, as market conditions for car shopping is different than the US. Less room for negotiation, no widespread Costco deals, etc. I have a family with 1 kid, so having a larger 7 seater is an option too and we like to ski, but realistically, a 5 seater SUV is totally workable. I have also owned a wide variety of Japanese, American, and German cars from commuter cars to sports cars, to the idiotic gas guzzling 9MPG Jeep Commander.

So a few days ago I got a email from Costco on a deal on Ford with Employee pricing + $1000 Costco discount and was impressed with the deep discounts. Impressed enough to take a very close look and seriously consider a Ford vehicle. Audi doesn't really give out good deals in Canada, especially for new model years.

So all prices I list are going to be in Canadian dollars

Obviously Audis are more expensive cars, and while I loved the new Q7 with all the amazing tech and fully digital dashboard with integrated navigation maps, a decently-equipped Audi Q7 is $80k + tax. More than I want to spend. So the Explorer is effectively the $55k equivalent. Further more, if you can get it under $55k, you avoid the +3% luxury tax in British Columbia.

So the Edge is more like the Q5 competition -- the size that I'm targeting. A top of the line Edge Sport with this discount is $50k (+$4500 tech, +1750 moonroof). The Edge sport is about 6" longer than the Q5 -- the Q5 is more like the size of an Escape, but I like the extra cargo space in the Edge. The 2.7 V6 Eco-boost engine is closer to the Q5 3.0TFSI engine. The SQ5 is faster and more powerful, and more expensive. This is where things break down a bit, as a $50k Edge vs a $60k Q5... close enough in price that the Audi is the obvious choice.

I drove the Edge Sport and Explorer Platinum. I unfortunately encountered a deal-breaker for me with both cars, and that was the transmission. The six-speed transmission with twin turbos was slow to shift and react. What was clearly a half-second of lag. Even when I hit the gas from a total stop, it would take a half-second before the car realized I was gunning it. The shifts were also quite clunky, and I could feel the power getting sapped each time it shifted. Sure, most people don't drive like a fiend, and in normal daily driving this wouldn't be an issue. But being keenly aware of how Audi's drive -- they have utterly mastered all-wheel drive and transmission responsiveness. Put a ZF-8 in these Fords, and I think it would have made a big enough difference for me to consider pulling the trigger.

Overall, I vastly preferred the Explorer over the Edge, especially considering the minor price differences $50k vs $55k. The Explorer looks nicer inside and out, feels better to drive, and the tron-like lighting is a real nice touch. A decked out Edge is definitely not worth $50k, even with the deep discount.

Ironically, I also spotted the F150 and couldn't help but notice that they had 4 doors and incredibly spacious back seats and very similar fit and finish to the Explorer. So I checked it out without driving one. I was amazed at how nice it was inside. In fact, the F150 had more space in the rear seats than sitting in the middle row in an Explorer or the back seats in the Edge, or the Audi equivalents. Could an F150 be the only car we truly need? Dump runs, ski trips, Ikea trips, commuting. I actually could seriously warm up to having a dedicated 5 seater with a completely separate truck bed for storage of skis or garbage. Plus the rear seats fold up to the back giving you a cavernous trunk space - 2 seater with truck bed too. But again, it comes down to transmission for me. If any of you are considering an Explorer or Edge, you definitely should check out the F150. So if I were to rank which cars I would buy... this is how it would fall.

2018 Audi SQ5 ($70k) -- insane performance, a proper Jekyll and Hyde CUV. 5 seater, same size as an Escape. And also incredible fuel economy. Even though Audi's must use premium gas, getting around 8L/100km is literally twice as good as these Fords for economy. I could shave off $10k and get the 3.0TFSI engine instead, but you lose some of the cool stuff. Also this is the same price range as the upcoming Mercedes GLC43, which are pretty equivalent cars, just some different aesthetics.

2017 Ford Explorer Platinum ($55k) -- 7 seats with all the bells & whistles and better cargo capacity, attractive looks inside and out. And could option it out to dodge the 3% luxury tax at the $55k threshhold. But the finance rates on the Explorer are 3.9% which is on the high side.

2017 Ford F-150 Platinum ($58k) -- super close to Explorer... definitely some tradeoffs, but I actually think it could work as a very versatile and practical car. Can finance for 2.9%.

2017 Audi Q7 ($80k) -- Beautiful car inside and out with beautiful technology, but at a painful price. There is an SQ7 coming out that would be more to my liking but it would be an insane $100k

2016 Ford Edge ($50k) -- I don't actually think I would ever buy this car. The Explorer just has so much more value and it also rode better with a higher seating position. In all, I think the Edge suits lower trim ranges and doesn't fit in the luxury/performance space at all. However, I could finance an Edge over 4 years and pay 0% interest. That's significant additional savings right there. Ironically the Ford Edge is closely matched to the new Jaguar F-Pace for size. The F-Pace was designed to be precisely the size between a Q5/Q7, X3/X5, or the Edge. But the F-Pace is very expensive. $80k for the S.

So I definitely had fun. I'm probably not buying a new car until next year around this time, but I will keep my eye on Ford. Things could grow on me. Fords also have some really nice features that Audi's don't such as superior interior cubby space, lots of connectivity with numerous USB and literally a 3-prong plug in the back, for those long road trips to recharge your Gameboy or laptop, etc.

spijun

Audi simply cannot be compared with Ford, You can compare the VW Touareg
Audi, MB, BMW are premium class

marnes

I know. I am fully aware of this... but I still compared them anyway, and it was kind of fun

I guess the short version, is that a Platinum Explorer is actually a really nice car vs a Audi Q7. The luxury and tech features inside the Explorer actually compete directly with Audi. And when you start talking $55k vs $80k for similar equipped vehicles, it's worth considering... even though I couldn't stand the transmission/engine/bad fuel economy.

I know it's ridiculous but the Explorer has blue tron lighting with illuminated door sills, and the cup holders too. Was actually pretty cool. Way better interior storage, more USB plugs, both in the front and the rear, and also had two 3-prong power outlets. One in the front and one in the 2nd row. But not as nice and solid as the Audi... and won't hold it's value as well. Ford has come a long way.

Going down to the smaller Q5 size though, there really is no comparison. Ford or it's premium Lincoln brand can't get there. I actually have no idea who would ever buy a Lincoln of any flavor. They are hideous looking inside and out and as expensive as an Audi!

eric strauss

All cars are comparable, and in failing to look thoroughly at options, you may miss opportunities. For me, prestige is mostly ethereal, especially in SUV's… the Ford that most interests me in that domain is the Ford Flex (most closely compared to the Q7). It has been a darling of the automotive journalists and I have found the test drives fantastic. They have upgraded performance options and the car/truck/whatever really handles well. The longer wheelbase gives a great ride and there is an active aftermarket community for these beasts. The silver and black combinations are quite striking. Are they as beautiful from the interior - of course not - Audi owns that domain. Are they as expensive to maintain - of course not - Audi owns that one as well. We have considered one to be our four-door workhorse so that my wife and I can both own smaller two-door canyon cars (she is looking at the S3/TTs/GolfR options or the new Clubsport MX5 to replace the S4 at lease end (6 months)

Look, I am not dissing Audi (so please don't light the flamethrowers). I have owned nine for heaven's sake and have not had a Ford in my driveway since 1977. But I am also left flat by the bull**** automakers (especially Audi as of late) throw at us to get us to spend extra money on our fragile sense of prestige. The ads Audi is putting on the air recently are an insult and look like a scene from a fantasy film. The handling of their diesel portfolio has left me gobsmacked. What happened to Vorsprung dur Technik (illuminations through technology) that brought us to the marque.

It's a bit sad because their research in urban mobility solutions is cutting edge… perhaps they feel the car business is dying and the best talent in VAG is headed elsewhere. We shall see. Check out the Mindbox initiative: https://audi-urban-future-initiative.com

Happy Hunting

Eric

westcedar

You have a really interesting post. I was going through a similar thing. I need a car with a "bit more room" I have a 2010 Q5 and was looking at the Q7 (and Volvo xc90). My thought was "is there really a difference between a $65k q7 and a fully loaded Highlander.

Lucky for me, I took my q5 in for service and I asked for, and was given, a q7 loaner. What a great car! Fun to drive, comfortable, and truely a great car. Could be a definite replacement for my Q5. Felt the same way I used to feel about my 2010 Q5.

about a month later I drove my friend's brand new fully loaded Highlander. It felt like I was driving my wife's mini van. So utilitarian, no enjoyment, so spring in my step as I was walking to it in anticipation. Felt like a car "solely to get from point A to point B" If I wanted that, I would run my Q5 into the ground.

So yes, there is a big difference between a $50k Toyota and $65k Q7. The question is, do you want to spend the difference.

marnes

I did briefly check out other brands online... and I would agree the Highlander is extremely bland. The Ford Explorer definitely goes full-on premium luxury with a engine that can give 'er, even though it's on a ****ty 6-speed with turbo lag.

The Explorer has 365 hp 350 lb. ft torque (top tiers)
The Q7 has 333 hp, 325 lb-ft torque.

That aside, the price difference beween $55k Explorer vs $80k Q7 is significant, given that on paper those two cars are basically identical.

If I truly stick to Audi... getting a SQ5 vs a Q7 -- I'd go for a SQ5.

But if I consider a bigger Explorer for $55k vs an SQ5 for $70k... it's a tougher call. I'm pretty open minded about this stuff.

For me, I'm still strongly leaning towards the SQ5 because that car put a wide smile on my face, and it would do so every day. That car is amazingly fun to drive, and it looks great, and everything about it is great. And you get the prestige too.

But the 2017 Ford Explorer Platinum is a truly amazing car and worthy competition to the Q7 given the massive price difference between the two. If they put a ZF-8 in the Explorer, I would buy that.

Q5 Bob

The Explorer is a very good looking SUV both inside and out. Every time I see a nicely equipped one on the street, it reinforces my opinion.

nate704

My friend got his brand new F150 for 35k and the sticker price was more than 50K. So the instant discount is the actual value of the Ford trucks and NOT to be compared with Premium brands

USAVAGEU

Good to see somebody else enjoys car shopping. I really like checking out all the cars, test driving them and really getting to know them before I buy....sounds like you know what you want now.

BarryT

I had an F-150 supercrew ecoboost with all of the bells and whistles. It was a nice truck, but Ford customer service is horrible. I had a lot of issues with the truck from the day I purchased it. With less than 100 miles on the truck the windshield cracked. The paint had a lot of flaws from the factory including sealant on top of the cab that they painted over, bubbles in the paint, peeling paint, and dirt in the paint. I didn't notice it when I purchased it because it was raining. After six months of fighting with Ford they repaired it. They had it for over a month and gave me a Ford Focus as a loaner. The driver who drove it back and forth smoked in it, they broke trim pieces and reused them, and scratched the rear window so bad that they had to replace it after they gave it back to me. The sunroof leaked and stained the headliner, the intercooler had to be replaced, the 4wd went out at 12k miles, and the steering rack had to be replaced. When the intercooler had to be replaced the dealership told me that I couldn't drive it and that it would take two weeks for the part to arrive, but I couldn't have a loaner car. After contacting Ford they gave me a rental that I ended up driving for a month. The heated/cooled seats stopped blowing air so they replaced that and the technician broke the trim pieces around the seat by trying to pry them off and left the back of the seat off when I picked it up. I noticed the trim pieces as I was leaving and they said that they'd order new trim. After constantly calling them every week for roughly 8 months they ordered the pieces and they were the wrong color. They never were replaced when I finally decided to trade the POS in. I had to replace the tires, brakes and rotors before 20k miles and ended up trading it at 25k miles. There are over 5 Ford dealerships in my area and most of them would ask me if I purchased the truck from them when I'd take it in for service. One service advisor told me that he wouldn't cover any warranty work because I didn't purchase it from them. I had to call the regional service rep and get him involved. The sticker price on it was $52,500 and I paid $37k after the rebates. I had it for 2 years and got $34k when I traded it in. If you want an F-150 shop around in late summer or early fall when the new model years are about to be released.