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Similarly, Lexus and Acura engineers seem good at designing brand new SUVs that drive like yachts
Just to be sure: I'm not defending Audi on this carbon issue, that's for sure! I got two free carbon cleanings from Audi then dumped the Q5 before the next one was on my dime. This spring, my RS4 will get it's 4th carbon cleaning (intake valves and intake runners in the cylinder heads). Only 60K miles on the car. It takes me about 12 hours to clean, but it's worth about 25HP, so on a performance car - it's worth it (to me).
Similarly, Lexus and Acura engineers seem good at designing brand new SUVs that drive like yachts
Just to be sure: I'm not defending Audi on this carbon issue, that's for sure! I got two free carbon cleanings from Audi then dumped the Q5 before the next one was on my dime. This spring, my RS4 will get it's 4th carbon cleaning (intake valves and intake runners in the cylinder heads). Only 60K miles on the car. It takes me about 12 hours to clean, but it's worth about 25HP, so on a performance car - it's worth it (to me).
So on your RS4 you need to have the carbon cleaned about every 15K miles and I'm sure you don't drive the RS4 like an old lady as most Q5 owners do. This is just terrible for Audi engineering!!!! My 2014 Q5 2.0T has the extra non-direct 5th fuel injector in the intake manifold so hopefully this will aid in some carbon removal by the slight fuel flushing of the valves .
What it the cost of carbon removal on a 3.2 when you are not covered by warranty?
Last edited by Bob Petruska; 01-09-2016 at 06:23 PM.
My Q5:
- 2010 Q5 3.2 FSI, 34k, picked up in June 2009
- Maintained by Audi (Audi care)
- Fuel - 99% of the time Shell 91 octane
- Typically drive around the city plus some highway - in S mode at times
Issues:
- Rough idling/shudder about 2 months ago
- 2-3 tries before the car would start (usually twice a week). Over the last 3 weeks.
- Check engine light on for about a day (2 days ago)
So of course I came to the AudiWorld and other Audi forums (the Audi community is awesome ) which led me to believe this might be a carbon buildup problem based on the symptoms. I took it to my Audi dealer yesterday (Toronto area) and they confirmed that this is a carbon buildup problem. They'll be keeping my car for a few days and replacing the injectors under warranty - very decent dealer btw, always look into and fix any issues I bring to them - of course it helps that I'm always right
For those interested here's a summary of the information I've collected....
Issue - Direct injection engines such as FSI get carbon buildup on the valves and injectors because there is no fuel passing over them as it does for other engine designs - so no cleaning. This leads to misfires, loss of HP (substantial) and potentially other issues for the engine.
Turbo engines - 3.0 T (supercharged) and 2.0T seem to suffer a lot less from the carbon buildup issue, possibly due to higher engine temps in the manifold which burns off the carbon deposits.
What doesn't seem to work to prevent this:
- Catch cans don't have much effect (don't know the technical details are but something to do with the "gunk" coming out of the engine which isn't prevented by the catch can)
- Frequent oil changes
- Fuel additives (the additives never make it out to the valves so they have no effect)
What may work:
- Always using approved gas (top tier with detergents - not really convinced on what impact this would have...maybe burning cleaner so less deposits making it out to the valves)
- DIY cleaning agents for valves (probably shouldn't try this unless you know a lot about cars - I don't)
- Driving for a long distance (highway) once or twice a week - perhaps also combined with higher revs for a limited time 3000 - 40000rpms or so (to burn off deposits)
- Spirited driving (to burn off deposits)
Warranty and other stuff:
- Most decent dealers will clean/replace under warranty once there is a check engine light and error code confirms (there might not always be a check engine light). Might want to make sure the error code wasn't simply turned off.
- Audi doesn't seem to be doing anything in terms of adding this to maintenance probably due to the amount of time it takes; dealer told me half day's worth of effort. This is quite sad and unreasonable as we as customers who purchase these luxury products should be entitled to having these products work...seems basic to me.
- Out of warranty you're looking at about $500+ every 3 years or so. Audi should step up and extend the warranty for this issue, likely though they're probably waiting for a class action.
- For dealers who try to ignore you I suggest you tap into the great wealth of knowledge available in this forum and others so you can challenge your dealer. Persistence is also a great technique....
So that's it...if you have an FSI engine you will eventually get carbon buildup and possibly have to dish out some $$$. As for me I've ordered an S5 with a 4.2 V8 FSI (new S5 with 3.0T is just too ugly) which should be arriving this Christmas....maybe I can get a discount on the valve cleaning with two FSI engines I'm an optimist....seriously though I will be writing a letter to Audi NA....this is so not cool Audi, clean up your act.
Thx for your great summary. It is valuable what works and what does not. It saved me from trying the catch can.
Do you have any assessment comparing impacts on Gas vs Diesel engines.
I'm not sure if I'm lucky or it's just a wake up call to get rid of my beloved Q5! Mine is an 09 and of course 3.2L. The first cleaning was done at 30,000 miles and about 200 miles from reaching the warranty end point (100,000 miles) for the carbon buildup, I got the CEL on and was confirmed to be it. The dealer will cover it but also noted that my injectors need to be cleaned and I'll be paying for cleaning those injectors around $350!!! Shouldn't those injectors be included in that carbon buildup cleaning???
Hi - The check engine light came on on my 2011 Q5. I took it to an (european car) repair shop but they erased the code before they wrote it down. They tell me it will come on again but it hasn't (that was 2 weeks ago). My feeling is that this is a carbon built up issue, those anybody know the code(s) number? I have the extended warranty letter so I assume I should be fine when I take it to the authorized dealer, but I rather know the code before I walk in.
Update on my problem. While awaiting my appointment, after 5 days or so running with engine light on, it suddenly turned off by itself. I've checked the codes and they were still there. Last thursday, i brought the Q5 to the dealer and they confirm problem codes. The only difference this time versus the first time, i didn't really feel any thing wrong as the first time around i could feel the motor was losing power. So was a cleaning up nescessary? Audi still did the clean-up and it was covered under that extendend Audi warranty, so no fee paid.
On the other hand, while working the motor the tech saw that i had a leak on the coolant thermostat (#06E121111M) and suggested replacement, so it cost me close to $500 (cdn). As parts were aleady removed for carbon repair, they said i had a discount on labor (1hr less charged).
Also, just prior going to dealer, i had received the Audi recall for side airbag possible issue due sunroof (possible leakage in drain hose), dealer did also the recall and nothing broken/issue (no rust, no damage or leaks found. They applied protective wax, go figure on what they waxed.
PS. Service wise, excellent. I had a Q3 as a loaner for 2days. I wasn't really impressed by it, motor lacks power.
I have a 2010 Q5 with (yikes!) just over 250,000 Km. Yes, I drive a lot and I think was the first person here to identify the problem since Audi denied there was a problem..they blamed me and gas....
My engine light has been going on and off for a while. Then it just stayed on.
So, along with the need to replace the already ($583+) replaced water pump, fix a faulty throttle valve ($1310+), the secondary air ports also should be cleaned for $1418.49 +
It is so annoying that a fault in manufacturing design ends up costing the customer a LOT of money. This should not be warranty dependent when it is a manufacturer DESIGN FLAW.
Waiting for the 2018. It looks quite nice...but I I have sworn to never buy a first generation model again so this will have to last a bit longer...or maybe I'll buy a Porche or BMW if I can't wait...
Hey everyone. New here, I recently got a pre-owned 2011 Q5 2.0T with around 100k miles. Just did the piston and ring job and when the mechanic checked, they said there was no need for carbon cleaning. Which is very surprising given it is a direct injection and the number of miles. I know the previous owner did a lot of highway miles.
What are some ways of continuing preventing the vehicle from carbon buildup?
07-25-2016, 03:16 PM
