Big turbo TT

Sorry..it was meant to say "NOT easy to get into the 11's

primetime

Sigh... My bad, don't take it personally that wasn't the intention... It's an IHRA track so it's within spec., which I believe is +- 1.5% It's from my pbox data... Most dragstrips will have a slope... More downhill then uphill... Also, the 60-130 numbers aren't the best measure of the 1/4 since it is 0-116ish

Saki, what was the change for 0-116? what is the slope at tmp?

ilspazzaneve

Listen I have no problems making this thread 25 pages long, but I try not to get irrelevant or misinforming. You obviously understand what you wrote was BS initially, and are now back-pedaling trying to reason that fuel and spark start at the same time. Even that is not true.

Fuel injection starts before ignition in normal or stratified charge mode. That is the only way there is enough time for any mixing and swirl to happen. It may continue injection after ignition (usually after TDC) in certain modes. I won't be dragged into a discussion about swirl and turbulence with someone who has no background or education in it - sorry, it's the snooty engineer talking here to the mechanic. I do have plenty of knowledge about that, that is not a concept confined to automotive applications.

Now below you show everybody why your uneducated *** tries and fails to explain anything to anybody - you should keep to grunting and making big hand gestures. That's why I step in.

DI will inject during the intake stroke - most systems will. And detonation is what we are worried about here (not preignition), which will typically happen close to TDC when pressure/heat is highest. Note that there is no difference in the cause of detonation between port injection and direct injection. However, DI can concentrate and direct the fuel in a way that doesn't rely on swirl and squish as much to control or prevent detonation. Usually in a port-injected system, the compression ratio is limited by having enough room for the chamber and quench zones to ensure proper combustion and detonation resistance for the specified gasoline.

Again, here you go on about sparking before the fuel is in. if you like, here's a calculated example from the dumb-*** engineer.

At 7000 rpm, my FSI injectors are indeed injecting for over 5ms (verified by that useless thing you call a VCDS). That means the injectors are spraying for at least 210 degrees of crankshaft revolution. Do you think that injection can start 40 degrees BTDC, and still be spraying at 170 degrees ATDC, basically the end of the compression stroke, and still make power? No. Obviously the injection started WELL before the ignition. OK?

Just relax and call it a day, buddy.

Not on the 100 tune, which is what we are talking about - 40 degrees ignition timing BTDC. Power is down, lower than even on the 93 tune, which suggests exactly what you wrote above - the cylinder pressures are too high - the term you are looking for is the peak MBT. It's a few degrees advanced from this. And if you want to know, I already found this out from our friend, the engineer who actually worked on this ECU. Not a mechanic.

Enough people know that these motors have broken on a few occasions under the stresses of a tune. You can wave your arms around for proof, but obviously you only read forums for information.

ilspazzaneve

I vote for TMP prime...else I come down to Thompson this fall and run an 11...

Big turbo TT

I re-read my FSI study guide,and you are right on some points and I am wrong on some. The injection is on the intake stroke and the evaporation of the fuel which takes away heat is what helps with being able to have higher compression ratios and FI,nit injection timing.
You are right,though,I am uneducated,hell I didn;t eben finish highschool!I was smoking dope,surfing and getting barreled on the North Shore and chasing pu**y while you were in college studying..my bad.
I can accept being wrong,but still want proof of motors popping left & right...

ilspazzaneve

Well, I failed 5.5 out of 6 courses in my first year of engineering for the same reasons (without the surfing)...wish I spent the year in Maui...it's beautiful.

Popping motors left and right is an exaggeration, not sure who used that expression, but they are out there. If you'd been on this forum earlier this year, you'd remember one around March or April.

81bear

If Saki brings his v-box to the track tonight we'll find out the slope at TMP. It is an NHRA track so I do not know if that makes any difference from IHRA with regard to specifications?

P.S. still waiting for your GTR feedback... lol!

sakimano

you would if your car wasn't under warranty and Audi wasn't giving you a free engine, after you flashed back to stock, then told them you were stock. However if you WERE under warranty and you WERE getting a free engine, you would shut your mouth and tell only a select few people while you got your situation sorted.

There was one guy who started a thread on here about his engine trouble. He flashed back to stock, took it in, and they said he had a problem in cylinder 5. They gave him a new block.

Another guy ran the REVO race file, with excellent race gas, blew out cylinder 5 (piston/rod damage...not sure exactly what) and had to get his car towed.

sakimano

I didn't blame you. I'm giving an answer to your question that did not appear rhetorical, but rather implied APR's/your dominance as a result of nobody else matching their/your results. I don't think that's really a fair conclusion about who can or can't tune for power. The results are not yet in.

The 1.3% downhill thing is pretty huge frankly . I don't think people quite understand the effect. Let me help.

Your track = 1320 feet from start to finish, but drops 17 and a half feet over that distance.

Imagine starting on a massive 17 foot high platform ramp and racing a car starting on the flat track beside you. Who do YOU think is going to win, all else being equal? Of course the car that is running off the big ramp wins. If the other car is at Cayuga (TMP) it is on an 8 foot ramp. You are 9 feet higher up. Again, you'll crush them.

You have said a bunch of times you'd go to the other track 'for me' because I have said repeatedly that Thompson produces results that are out of the reach of other cars on the forums running at other tracks. The only guy to get close to you was imolamonster...who ran at Thompson. The strange thing is that when I looked at your quarter mile data from the pbox (GPS based measurement of how long it took you to go 1320 feet) it said you ran low 12s back when your track said you were running high 11s. 12.2-12.3 @ 116 or so it said. Everyone ignored that for some reason. Why is that?

It's all just data to me, but your success is at least partially explained by this geographical anomoly at your dragstrip. I don't like the 'but PRIMETIME ran 11.7 so we're all 11.7 cars!' tomfoolery that exists in this platform. Let's really look at how he accomplished that and see if that is representative of what other guys will accomplish. Frankly, it's not.

oh...when we find out that you have a custom tune with parameters that normal APR customers don't have (about which I can't seem to get an answer out of you), I think you need to disclose that. You can't say you're 'APR 100' becuase you're not. You're a custom, tweaked file that is more dialed in and more aggressive than their other files that the retail customer gets.

p.s. I don't think Thompson is the only track with this type of advantage/****ed up measurement. I would LOVE to get some data at Palm Beach International Raceway. would be very interesting because almost ALL of the records for every platform out there seem to come from there...and it's in hot sunny florida. The stock B8 S4 record was run there...12.69. Fonzie's excellent time was also run there. A B7 RS4 with NO TUNE and only LW mods ran 12.2 there. None of those make sense.

primetime

Sigh... I understand the impact of the track decline but it is offset some by the ****ty elevation and horrible prep... The only reason I go there is because it is so close to my house... The east coast guys all have elevations near sea level and negative DA's for a good part of the year... A good DA for me at Thompson is 500ish... Also, I had previously raced my Mustang at Thompson, Dragway 42, and Norwalk with Thompson producing the worst #'s and Norwalk the best...

I have always been upfront about my tune... It's been to APR seven times... I have a 93 file and 3 race files, I believe, I am in the office so I can't check the paperwork... Like I said I have no idea what APR tweaks but like Jay said most likely timing... That's how Revo makes more power right?

Actually, most of the drag racing records(not Audi)come from the east coast tracks like MIR 87 feet, Atco 33 feet, Englishtown 178 feet...