2018 S4 Price Negotiation - Need Advice
02-20-2018, 06:30 PM
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2018 S4 Price Negotiation - Need Advice
Hi everyone,
Just joined the site and was hoping you could give me some advice on whether on getting a good deal. My lease has ended on my S4 and I'm looking to either renew it or potentially buy if the price is better. I asked the dealer to price out a similar 2018 S4 and received the response below. Any input or advice on whether its a good deal or if I should negotiate him down would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
2018 S4 - It has more standard equipment , smartphone interface , massage function , B&O sound , full LED . Audi has a pull ahead program , they will make your last two payments ($660) . The new lease would be 36 months , 12,000 miles a year , $4,164.00 due at signing and $665.00 a month . The deal includes Loyalty of $1,000.00 . The residual value is $34,939.00. Or Purchase price is $58,000.00 +doc fee $499.00 + tax $4,021.80 +.04 luxury tax $232.00 + NJ tire tax $7.50 +Reg. $429.00 , then minus loyalty of $1,000.00 . The lease is an awesome deal , it’s the same money as 3 years ago
Just joined the site and was hoping you could give me some advice on whether on getting a good deal. My lease has ended on my S4 and I'm looking to either renew it or potentially buy if the price is better. I asked the dealer to price out a similar 2018 S4 and received the response below. Any input or advice on whether its a good deal or if I should negotiate him down would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
2018 S4 - It has more standard equipment , smartphone interface , massage function , B&O sound , full LED . Audi has a pull ahead program , they will make your last two payments ($660) . The new lease would be 36 months , 12,000 miles a year , $4,164.00 due at signing and $665.00 a month . The deal includes Loyalty of $1,000.00 . The residual value is $34,939.00. Or Purchase price is $58,000.00 +doc fee $499.00 + tax $4,021.80 +.04 luxury tax $232.00 + NJ tire tax $7.50 +Reg. $429.00 , then minus loyalty of $1,000.00 . The lease is an awesome deal , it’s the same money as 3 years ago
02-20-2018, 07:33 PM
#2
Seems like a lot of "Cap Cost Reduction" ($4,164) -- but that, of course, is your decision. I wonder what would happen to the payment if you put, oh, I dunno, $0 due at signing?
Why not ask? It seems that $100 per month x 36 is $3,600 so you can sort of get an idea that you're buying the monthly payment down with that cap cost reduction (from your pocket). Perhaps you could put multiple security deposits down, which would be 100% refundable at the end of the lease. What isn't being revealed here is what the MSRP is and what the pre sales tax price is (is the discounted price $58K or is that the MSRP?)
I assume this is a P+?
I would submit that "most" of us would urge you to consider the Prestige package.
$775 to $800 per month with virtually nothing up front seems like it would be a better starting point to negotiate from.
If you could see yourself keeping this for at least 5 years, well, maybe a buy is worth looking at.
Why not ask? It seems that $100 per month x 36 is $3,600 so you can sort of get an idea that you're buying the monthly payment down with that cap cost reduction (from your pocket). Perhaps you could put multiple security deposits down, which would be 100% refundable at the end of the lease. What isn't being revealed here is what the MSRP is and what the pre sales tax price is (is the discounted price $58K or is that the MSRP?)
I assume this is a P+?
I would submit that "most" of us would urge you to consider the Prestige package.
$775 to $800 per month with virtually nothing up front seems like it would be a better starting point to negotiate from.
If you could see yourself keeping this for at least 5 years, well, maybe a buy is worth looking at.
02-21-2018, 06:09 AM
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To know if it is a good deal you would have to know how much the dealer is discounting the car prior to the lease calculations...it is too easy to get lost in lease numbers to make a good assessment of the deal you are getting. I would not put anything down on a lease beyond the bare minimum...if you total the car then you will lose it all.
02-21-2018, 06:15 AM
#5
Is my reading of the "deal" that if you're leasing you have to pay the sales tax on the "purchase price" of the car? Or are you only paying sales tax on the effective "sum" of the lease payments? Of course, another unknown here, what is the sales tax percentage?
There are websites that -- given ALL of the information -- will help you determine the "quality" of the deal. I think what you're getting here is general advice, like "don't put money down on a lease" etc. We don't have enough information to render a specific "rating" of the deal.
When I lease, I find the MSRP and then I ask what the "discount off MSRP is as a %" -- then I ask what the "money factor" (which pretty much translates to the interest rate) is. I also ask for the "residual value" as a % of MSRP is based on the miles being considered. The rules for sales tax, too are important as are "documentation" fees, loyalty discounts and any other financial incentives offered (Audi makes X lease payments, etc.)
Then, you can perform your own calculations rather than get the perhaps deliberately difficult to decipher dealer explanation. Due to certain factors, multiple security deposits (up to 9) may be more or less attractive in 2018 than in previous years or perhaps in the future. But, we live in the now -- so here is something to consider: If you can afford to "lock up" your money for 36 months, multiple security deposits do have some effect in lowering your monthly payment. The difference in using security deposits (plural) to lower your monthly lease payment vs a cap cost reduction, is that when the lease is over, you get your security deposits back; a cap cost reduction from your pocket is gone, never to return. But, multiple security deposits in the current economy have a lesser effect on lowering the monthly payment, so don't expect miracles. What MAY make multiple sec deps attractive is that you get to keep your money when the term of the lease ends.
If the money is "meaningless" to you, you should do what you want -- buy down the monthly payment and drive off in a great car. My suggestion is to get more data and seek alternatives. Then evaluate several approaches to come up with the one that meets your needs, your cash situation, etc.
I have, until this S4, always been a lease customer. I am not arguing for or against your lease "deal" -- it is just difficult to provide you with any specific "opinion" pertaining to the lease deal you have presented -- beyond saying I believe you shouldn't (under any circumstance I can imagine) put money down on a lease. If you have the cash, keep it -- you CAN make a higher lease payment, apparently. So, don't give them the cash up front. Or, as I noted previously, consider the BUY scenario and compare it to the various lease options that you will surely be able to review. If you have NO interest in buying a depreciating asset, I get it. On the other hand, you may arrive at the conclusion that putting some money down on a purchase could make sense -- at least more sense than putting money down on a lease.
Of course, you may find that a 36-month lease will need to be compared to a 72-month buy (if you're looking at "cash out" and monthly payments.) You'll need, too, some "estimate" of the relative value of the car as a % of MSRP at the end of years 3, 4, 5, and 6. Then you can make an "informed" decision regarding when you can, as a practical matter, "walk away" from the finance contract by virtue of the fact you will know when you're right side up (based on the retained value of the car -- the residual) considering your down payment.
The point is, inform yourself what would happen if you put the $4,100 down on a 72-month purchase -- the dealer's finance person typically will have several choices. My best deal was from the Royal Bank of Scotland -- beat Audi Financial by a mile. And I still got the loyalty bonus.
Hopefully, this has given you something to consider, to evaluate, and is enough information to allow you to paint several different pictures. Perhaps for reasons we can't know, you'll go for an "optimum" choice and not the "maximum" choice.
There are websites that -- given ALL of the information -- will help you determine the "quality" of the deal. I think what you're getting here is general advice, like "don't put money down on a lease" etc. We don't have enough information to render a specific "rating" of the deal.
When I lease, I find the MSRP and then I ask what the "discount off MSRP is as a %" -- then I ask what the "money factor" (which pretty much translates to the interest rate) is. I also ask for the "residual value" as a % of MSRP is based on the miles being considered. The rules for sales tax, too are important as are "documentation" fees, loyalty discounts and any other financial incentives offered (Audi makes X lease payments, etc.)
Then, you can perform your own calculations rather than get the perhaps deliberately difficult to decipher dealer explanation. Due to certain factors, multiple security deposits (up to 9) may be more or less attractive in 2018 than in previous years or perhaps in the future. But, we live in the now -- so here is something to consider: If you can afford to "lock up" your money for 36 months, multiple security deposits do have some effect in lowering your monthly payment. The difference in using security deposits (plural) to lower your monthly lease payment vs a cap cost reduction, is that when the lease is over, you get your security deposits back; a cap cost reduction from your pocket is gone, never to return. But, multiple security deposits in the current economy have a lesser effect on lowering the monthly payment, so don't expect miracles. What MAY make multiple sec deps attractive is that you get to keep your money when the term of the lease ends.
If the money is "meaningless" to you, you should do what you want -- buy down the monthly payment and drive off in a great car. My suggestion is to get more data and seek alternatives. Then evaluate several approaches to come up with the one that meets your needs, your cash situation, etc.
I have, until this S4, always been a lease customer. I am not arguing for or against your lease "deal" -- it is just difficult to provide you with any specific "opinion" pertaining to the lease deal you have presented -- beyond saying I believe you shouldn't (under any circumstance I can imagine) put money down on a lease. If you have the cash, keep it -- you CAN make a higher lease payment, apparently. So, don't give them the cash up front. Or, as I noted previously, consider the BUY scenario and compare it to the various lease options that you will surely be able to review. If you have NO interest in buying a depreciating asset, I get it. On the other hand, you may arrive at the conclusion that putting some money down on a purchase could make sense -- at least more sense than putting money down on a lease.
Of course, you may find that a 36-month lease will need to be compared to a 72-month buy (if you're looking at "cash out" and monthly payments.) You'll need, too, some "estimate" of the relative value of the car as a % of MSRP at the end of years 3, 4, 5, and 6. Then you can make an "informed" decision regarding when you can, as a practical matter, "walk away" from the finance contract by virtue of the fact you will know when you're right side up (based on the retained value of the car -- the residual) considering your down payment.
The point is, inform yourself what would happen if you put the $4,100 down on a 72-month purchase -- the dealer's finance person typically will have several choices. My best deal was from the Royal Bank of Scotland -- beat Audi Financial by a mile. And I still got the loyalty bonus.
Hopefully, this has given you something to consider, to evaluate, and is enough information to allow you to paint several different pictures. Perhaps for reasons we can't know, you'll go for an "optimum" choice and not the "maximum" choice.
02-21-2018, 06:48 AM
#6
AudiWorld Super User
Is my reading of the "deal" that if you're leasing you have to pay the sales tax on the "purchase price" of the car? Or are you only paying sales tax on the effective "sum" of the lease payments? Of course, another unknown here, what is the sales tax percentage?
There are websites that -- given ALL of the information -- will help you determine the "quality" of the deal. I think what you're getting here is general advice, like "don't put money down on a lease" etc. We don't have enough information to render a specific "rating" of the deal.
When I lease, I find the MSRP and then I ask what the "discount off MSRP is as a %" -- then I ask what the "money factor" (which pretty much translates to the interest rate) is. I also ask for the "residual value" as a % of MSRP is based on the miles being considered. The rules for sales tax, too are important as are "documentation" fees, loyalty discounts and any other financial incentives offered (Audi makes X lease payments, etc.)
Then, you can perform your own calculations rather than get the perhaps deliberately difficult to decipher dealer explanation. Due to certain factors, multiple security deposits (up to 9) may be more or less attractive in 2018 than in previous years or perhaps in the future. But, we live in the now -- so here is something to consider: If you can afford to "lock up" your money for 36 months, multiple security deposits do have some effect in lowering your monthly payment. The difference in using security deposits (plural) to lower your monthly lease payment vs a cap cost reduction, is that when the lease is over, you get your security deposits back; a cap cost reduction from your pocket is gone, never to return. But, multiple security deposits in the current economy have a lesser effect on lowering the monthly payment, so don't expect miracles. What MAY make multiple sec deps attractive is that you get to keep your money when the term of the lease ends.
If the money is "meaningless" to you, you should do what you want -- buy down the monthly payment and drive off in a great car. My suggestion is to get more data and seek alternatives. Then evaluate several approaches to come up with the one that meets your needs, your cash situation, etc.
I have, until this S4, always been a lease customer. I am not arguing for or against your lease "deal" -- it is just difficult to provide you with any specific "opinion" pertaining to the lease deal you have presented -- beyond saying I believe you shouldn't (under any circumstance I can imagine) put money down on a lease. If you have the cash, keep it -- you CAN make a higher lease payment, apparently. So, don't give them the cash up front. Or, as I noted previously, consider the BUY scenario and compare it to the various lease options that you will surely be able to review. If you have NO interest in buying a depreciating asset, I get it. On the other hand, you may arrive at the conclusion that putting some money down on a purchase could make sense -- at least more sense than putting money down on a lease.
Of course, you may find that a 36-month lease will need to be compared to a 72-month buy (if you're looking at "cash out" and monthly payments.) You'll need, too, some "estimate" of the relative value of the car as a % of MSRP at the end of years 3, 4, 5, and 6. Then you can make an "informed" decision regarding when you can, as a practical matter, "walk away" from the finance contract by virtue of the fact you will know when you're right side up (based on the retained value of the car -- the residual) considering your down payment.
The point is, inform yourself what would happen if you put the $4,100 down on a 72-month purchase -- the dealer's finance person typically will have several choices. My best deal was from the Royal Bank of Scotland -- beat Audi Financial by a mile. And I still got the loyalty bonus.
Hopefully, this has given you something to consider, to evaluate, and is enough information to allow you to paint several different pictures. Perhaps for reasons we can't know, you'll go for an "optimum" choice and not the "maximum" choice.
There are websites that -- given ALL of the information -- will help you determine the "quality" of the deal. I think what you're getting here is general advice, like "don't put money down on a lease" etc. We don't have enough information to render a specific "rating" of the deal.
When I lease, I find the MSRP and then I ask what the "discount off MSRP is as a %" -- then I ask what the "money factor" (which pretty much translates to the interest rate) is. I also ask for the "residual value" as a % of MSRP is based on the miles being considered. The rules for sales tax, too are important as are "documentation" fees, loyalty discounts and any other financial incentives offered (Audi makes X lease payments, etc.)
Then, you can perform your own calculations rather than get the perhaps deliberately difficult to decipher dealer explanation. Due to certain factors, multiple security deposits (up to 9) may be more or less attractive in 2018 than in previous years or perhaps in the future. But, we live in the now -- so here is something to consider: If you can afford to "lock up" your money for 36 months, multiple security deposits do have some effect in lowering your monthly payment. The difference in using security deposits (plural) to lower your monthly lease payment vs a cap cost reduction, is that when the lease is over, you get your security deposits back; a cap cost reduction from your pocket is gone, never to return. But, multiple security deposits in the current economy have a lesser effect on lowering the monthly payment, so don't expect miracles. What MAY make multiple sec deps attractive is that you get to keep your money when the term of the lease ends.
If the money is "meaningless" to you, you should do what you want -- buy down the monthly payment and drive off in a great car. My suggestion is to get more data and seek alternatives. Then evaluate several approaches to come up with the one that meets your needs, your cash situation, etc.
I have, until this S4, always been a lease customer. I am not arguing for or against your lease "deal" -- it is just difficult to provide you with any specific "opinion" pertaining to the lease deal you have presented -- beyond saying I believe you shouldn't (under any circumstance I can imagine) put money down on a lease. If you have the cash, keep it -- you CAN make a higher lease payment, apparently. So, don't give them the cash up front. Or, as I noted previously, consider the BUY scenario and compare it to the various lease options that you will surely be able to review. If you have NO interest in buying a depreciating asset, I get it. On the other hand, you may arrive at the conclusion that putting some money down on a purchase could make sense -- at least more sense than putting money down on a lease.
Of course, you may find that a 36-month lease will need to be compared to a 72-month buy (if you're looking at "cash out" and monthly payments.) You'll need, too, some "estimate" of the relative value of the car as a % of MSRP at the end of years 3, 4, 5, and 6. Then you can make an "informed" decision regarding when you can, as a practical matter, "walk away" from the finance contract by virtue of the fact you will know when you're right side up (based on the retained value of the car -- the residual) considering your down payment.
The point is, inform yourself what would happen if you put the $4,100 down on a 72-month purchase -- the dealer's finance person typically will have several choices. My best deal was from the Royal Bank of Scotland -- beat Audi Financial by a mile. And I still got the loyalty bonus.
Hopefully, this has given you something to consider, to evaluate, and is enough information to allow you to paint several different pictures. Perhaps for reasons we can't know, you'll go for an "optimum" choice and not the "maximum" choice.
$1000 cap cost roughly equals $30 a month on a lease
loyalty discounts are regionally based, and also vary. Sometimes there is loyalty at a fixed dollar amount regardless of who you finance through (not common), sometimes there is 1 loyalty discount if you use Audi (finance or lease), and a lower amount if you use an outside bank. Othertimes, like January and February, there is only a loyalty discount if you go through AFS (finance or lease) - at least for the North East market
Cash down on a lease also depends on the state and how it is being applied. Don't assume cash down is all, or even part, of cap cost. Some states allow you to prepay sales tax, some states don't. Prepayment of tax can be an advantage for some, as it reduces the monthly payment, but, in the event the car is totalled etc., you get the pro-rata share back of the tax you pre-paid. Other states don't allow this, and want taxes paid monthly. The breakdown of the deal in writing will show how much is cap cost, vs. how much is going towards other aspects.
02-21-2018, 07:50 AM
#7
This does NOT happen often, but it is one of the times when you should at least consider buying your lease out.
The thing is, you can start the selling process perhaps in the final 30-45 days before the lease ends -- if you get a firm offer greater than $30K -- again very rare that this will pan out -- you've a reason to believe.
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