30,000 mile update
04-02-2019, 10:39 AM
#11
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I got the third party brake deal from the dealer when I leased. It covered one set of pads and rotors. I have already used it for pads. The next set is on me. Too much stop and go 
04-02-2019, 10:45 AM
#12
AudiWorld Senior Member
If y'all are replacing your brakes at 10,000 miles I really hope you're at the track on the weekends.
I'm expecting to get at least 50,000 miles out of mine.
Assuming the brake service is $1,000 in parts and labor (and I'm sure it's more), that's a difference of 8 cents per mile driven in cost of ownership between the two above scenarios. To put 8 cents per mile into perspective, that is as big a difference as if gas jumped up to $5/gal instead of $3/gal, assuming you all are getting approx 23mpg combined like I am.
...in other words it's substantial. Let the car coast and quit tailgating you guys... really recommend you save those brakes unless or until you're using them for fun, smile-inducing performance applications...but then again it's your money.
I'm expecting to get at least 50,000 miles out of mine.
Assuming the brake service is $1,000 in parts and labor (and I'm sure it's more), that's a difference of 8 cents per mile driven in cost of ownership between the two above scenarios. To put 8 cents per mile into perspective, that is as big a difference as if gas jumped up to $5/gal instead of $3/gal, assuming you all are getting approx 23mpg combined like I am.
...in other words it's substantial. Let the car coast and quit tailgating you guys... really recommend you save those brakes unless or until you're using them for fun, smile-inducing performance applications...but then again it's your money.
04-02-2019, 02:37 PM
#13
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the way it was explained to me was the pads and rotors will definitely need replacing within the 3 years of leasing it so i just put it into the lease. i think the brake job cost at the dealer is 2k.
04-02-2019, 11:28 PM
#14
04-03-2019, 05:45 AM
#15
AudiWorld Super User
That is correct. The original post asking about if oil should be in that hose - well, it shouldn't. But, in this case, it is, and that may end up causing the dreaded intake valve carbon buildup issue.
04-03-2019, 10:08 AM
#16
AudiWorld Senior Member
@ the two posters above:
Emphasis and bracketed text my own:
"The impactors are designed for a maximum level of volumetric flow. When this maximum level is exceeded, the impactors open against the force of the spring, allowing a portion of the [oil-containing] blow-by gasses to pass by" into the ACF connection that jondin2000 is talking about.
At least, that is how I understood it. I am not an Audi engineer/mechanic, I am just interpreting these materials as best I can. If you based on this feel differently and believe that hose should be dry, it would be best to make an appointment with your dealer as I expect that on a stock vehicle and at your mileage, that issue would be covered by warranty if something was malfunctioning.
Emphasis and bracketed text my own:
"The impactors are designed for a maximum level of volumetric flow. When this maximum level is exceeded, the impactors open against the force of the spring, allowing a portion of the [oil-containing] blow-by gasses to pass by" into the ACF connection that jondin2000 is talking about.
At least, that is how I understood it. I am not an Audi engineer/mechanic, I am just interpreting these materials as best I can. If you based on this feel differently and believe that hose should be dry, it would be best to make an appointment with your dealer as I expect that on a stock vehicle and at your mileage, that issue would be covered by warranty if something was malfunctioning.
04-03-2019, 11:57 AM
#17
@ the two posters above:
Emphasis and bracketed text my own:
"The impactors are designed for a maximum level of volumetric flow. When this maximum level is exceeded, the impactors open against the force of the spring, allowing a portion of the [oil-containing] blow-by gasses to pass by" into the ACF connection that jondin2000 is talking about.
At least, that is how I understood it. I am not an Audi engineer/mechanic, I am just interpreting these materials as best I can. If you based on this feel differently and believe that hose should be dry, it would be best to make an appointment with your dealer as I expect that on a stock vehicle and at your mileage, that issue would be covered by warranty if something was malfunctioning.
Emphasis and bracketed text my own:
"The impactors are designed for a maximum level of volumetric flow. When this maximum level is exceeded, the impactors open against the force of the spring, allowing a portion of the [oil-containing] blow-by gasses to pass by" into the ACF connection that jondin2000 is talking about.
At least, that is how I understood it. I am not an Audi engineer/mechanic, I am just interpreting these materials as best I can. If you based on this feel differently and believe that hose should be dry, it would be best to make an appointment with your dealer as I expect that on a stock vehicle and at your mileage, that issue would be covered by warranty if something was malfunctioning.
04-03-2019, 12:49 PM
#18
AudiWorld Senior Member
I understand what you say it just that"fine oil separator " it not doing a fine job of separating oil... no issues with the car all stock....the issue will happen after 50k miles when valves get full of carbon build up.... obviously to me Audi did a ****ty job with this "oil separator " just so it can make it passed the warranty after screw us like they did before with engine carbon buildup
Again I am not an engine engineer (engine-eer? Ha) but I do understand engineering in general, and I am sure there was a reason far more complex than "because we hate our customers" as to why oil-saturated blow-by gasses are allowed past the fine oil seperator into a hose when a maximum pressure is achieved. That extra complexity of the spring bypass valve was certainly not free to engineer and produce, it adds complexity to an otherwise simple gravity-based design, and it obviously leads to less than favorable situations such as the one you posted a photo of...but there must be a very specific reason why Audi did that. I suspect the reason can be summarized as "because much like a blowoff valve, the whole thing will friggin' blow up when you ham on the engine unless some amount of bypass at high pressure is allowed, and it at the same time the mechanism won't work effectively if engineered to allow max pressure -- so we must design for a happy median while still accommodating a whole range of scenarios."
Analogy: there is exactly one RPM at which any given Atkinson cycle engine is generating the most power at the least fuel/resource cost. Compressors and generators are engineered to this fixed RPM however car engines operate across a broad RPM range because they must in order to accommodate variable travel speeds. At the low and high end of operating conditions the engine is operating inefficiently. This has led to attempted innovation in transmissions (read: 8spd in our S4, CVT in many vehicles, etc) but all are an attempt to fix a fundamental problem with the application of an imperfect solution.
You sound angry about this oil thing. At the same time you did buy a direct injected turbocharged engine -- which is an imperfect solution generating more power than a 2008 Honda Accord with the same approximate displacement and # of cyclinders, which comes at the cost of long term reliability and a higher maintenance burden e.g. carbon cleaning. Audi has engineered steps to fix this problem (this fine oil seperator is a far more elegant solution than a simple oil catch can as previously DI car owners often fitted to their engines aftermarket), but it is not perfect because the problem is fundamental to the design used.
Again, I would recommend you speak with your service advisor about this if you feel something is operating outside of manufacturer spec. All I am telling you is that "a little oil in the hose at 30,000 miles" is, in my experience and understanding of this application, not unexpected. Maybe there is a tolerance as to how many millilitres of oil are allowed in that hose for it to be considered in spec or something like that -- you could certainly take it in and ask.
04-03-2019, 01:12 PM
#19
AudiWorld Super User
I mean, maybe?
Again I am not an engine engineer (engine-eer? Ha) but I do understand engineering in general, and I am sure there was a reason far more complex than "because we hate our customers" as to why oil-saturated blow-by gasses are allowed past the fine oil seperator into a hose when a maximum pressure is achieved. That extra complexity of the spring bypass valve was certainly not free to engineer and produce, it adds complexity to an otherwise simple gravity-based design, and it obviously leads to less than favorable situations such as the one you posted a photo of...but there must be a very specific reason why Audi did that. I suspect the reason can be summarized as "because much like a blowoff valve, the whole thing will friggin' blow up when you ham on the engine unless some amount of bypass at high pressure is allowed, and it at the same time the mechanism won't work effectively if engineered to allow max pressure -- so we must design for a happy median while still accommodating a whole range of scenarios."
Analogy: there is exactly one RPM at which any given Atkinson cycle engine is generating the most power at the least fuel/resource cost. Compressors and generators are engineered to this fixed RPM however car engines operate across a broad RPM range because they must in order to accommodate variable travel speeds. At the low and high end of operating conditions the engine is operating inefficiently. This has led to attempted innovation in transmissions (read: 8spd in our S4, CVT in many vehicles, etc) but all are an attempt to fix a fundamental problem with the application of an imperfect solution.
You sound angry about this oil thing. At the same time you did buy a direct injected turbocharged engine -- which is an imperfect solution generating more power than a 2008 Honda Accord with the same approximate displacement and # of cyclinders, which comes at the cost of long term reliability and a higher maintenance burden e.g. carbon cleaning. Audi has engineered steps to fix this problem (this fine oil seperator is a far more elegant solution than a simple oil catch can as previously DI car owners often fitted to their engines aftermarket), but it is not perfect because the problem is fundamental to the design used.
Again, I would recommend you speak with your service advisor about this if you feel something is operating outside of manufacturer spec. All I am telling you is that "a little oil in the hose at 30,000 miles" is, in my experience and understanding of this application, not unexpected. Maybe there is a tolerance as to how many millilitres of oil are allowed in that hose for it to be considered in spec or something like that -- you could certainly take it in and ask.
Again I am not an engine engineer (engine-eer? Ha) but I do understand engineering in general, and I am sure there was a reason far more complex than "because we hate our customers" as to why oil-saturated blow-by gasses are allowed past the fine oil seperator into a hose when a maximum pressure is achieved. That extra complexity of the spring bypass valve was certainly not free to engineer and produce, it adds complexity to an otherwise simple gravity-based design, and it obviously leads to less than favorable situations such as the one you posted a photo of...but there must be a very specific reason why Audi did that. I suspect the reason can be summarized as "because much like a blowoff valve, the whole thing will friggin' blow up when you ham on the engine unless some amount of bypass at high pressure is allowed, and it at the same time the mechanism won't work effectively if engineered to allow max pressure -- so we must design for a happy median while still accommodating a whole range of scenarios."
Analogy: there is exactly one RPM at which any given Atkinson cycle engine is generating the most power at the least fuel/resource cost. Compressors and generators are engineered to this fixed RPM however car engines operate across a broad RPM range because they must in order to accommodate variable travel speeds. At the low and high end of operating conditions the engine is operating inefficiently. This has led to attempted innovation in transmissions (read: 8spd in our S4, CVT in many vehicles, etc) but all are an attempt to fix a fundamental problem with the application of an imperfect solution.
You sound angry about this oil thing. At the same time you did buy a direct injected turbocharged engine -- which is an imperfect solution generating more power than a 2008 Honda Accord with the same approximate displacement and # of cyclinders, which comes at the cost of long term reliability and a higher maintenance burden e.g. carbon cleaning. Audi has engineered steps to fix this problem (this fine oil seperator is a far more elegant solution than a simple oil catch can as previously DI car owners often fitted to their engines aftermarket), but it is not perfect because the problem is fundamental to the design used.
Again, I would recommend you speak with your service advisor about this if you feel something is operating outside of manufacturer spec. All I am telling you is that "a little oil in the hose at 30,000 miles" is, in my experience and understanding of this application, not unexpected. Maybe there is a tolerance as to how many millilitres of oil are allowed in that hose for it to be considered in spec or something like that -- you could certainly take it in and ask.
If history is any indication, Audi has been known to produce several iterations of these air/oil separators over time. I've also seen the same for PCV valves. I don't know if there is a systemic issue yet in these EA839 engines, and I suspect their design of allowing blowby gasses to exit under high load is the same as your belief.
Most people don't understand the disadvantages of DI engines and you have laid them out clearly. That said, it's not like it's THAT big of a deal (these blowby gases). Intake valves themselves allow oil to seep over them. The real issue is whether or not the mitigating effects of say, PEA additives in fuel (before someone goes, fuel doesn't go past intake valves in DI engines...stop pounding the keyboard and do some real research) are sufficient enough post compression to join these blow by gases and to prevent these vapours from binding to the intake valves. The other piece is the 508.00 engine oils. NOACK values are important (I understand they are on the higher end, near 11 for the Castrol version), and ensuring that frequent oil changes are NOT done as virgin oil is the most volatile.
All this to state this is a complex topic that requires a lot of background to understand, and that most Audi drivers who think they know this topic have not begun to even get past 5% of the knowledge on this. It seems you're in the group that has a solid understanding of this issue, so definite kudos to you.
That said, something about a cake and eating it too (DI engines - more power comes at an expense). So manual cleaning every 65,000 miles or whatever may be a fact of life.
04-03-2019, 05:36 PM
#20
[QUOTE=angrypengu;25298462]Incredibly, incredibly well done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mplsbrian
Ok guys you heard this two Audi engineers....get ready to spend some $3k for major carbon clean up once warranty expires
Quote:
Originally Posted by mplsbrian
Ok guys you heard this two Audi engineers....get ready to spend some $3k for major carbon clean up once warranty expires