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Old 04-24-2018, 04:24 AM
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Sorry newbie here ordering a 2018 S4. Deciding between Premium Plus and Prestige. What is DAP?

And can I order a Premium Plus and add everything that Prestige offers in packages? What can’t I add? I don’t care for HUD as I prefer to look at the amazing Virtual Cockpit! And I know I can’t add the dual pane glass. Anything else?
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Old 04-24-2018, 04:30 AM
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Old 04-24-2018, 04:31 AM
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I’m reading people saying it’s standard in Prestige however when I go to build it’s an $1,800 option package.
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Old 04-24-2018, 06:03 AM
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It's standard in Prestige trim for the 2018 A4. It was a bolt-on option available for Prestige trims only for 2017 A4 and 2018 S4. Don't worry, you're not missing out on anything monetarily: for the 18 A4 they simply increased the cost of the Prestige trim by $1800. My prediction is they will likely do the same thing for the 2019 S4 because DAP is a must have option and a true game changer on this car, at least if you are already spec'ing it close to the price point where it becomes available.

Consider that many of the DAP features are now standard on every 2018 Honda Accord and, believe it or not, Toyota Corolla. IMO you'd be silly to buy a $60,000+ car that doesn't have them.
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Old 04-24-2018, 06:05 AM
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I agree, DAP is a game changer.

DAP is, essentially, Level II Automation (plus some other automatic features, e.g., headlight control). It includes Traffic Jam Assist (which is remarkable), Adaptive Cruise Control, Lane Departure Mitigation and a whole host of features and "senses" that provide the capabilities generally called "Level II" (of 5) autonomy.

I, too, had initially thought HUD was a novelty -- now I see it as a technology that keeps your eyes on the road almost all of the time.

And, no, you really can't load up a P+ to Prestige -- it's a marketing decision made by "Audi of America" I would imagine.

My last S4 was P+, I am a convert to Prestige, despite my (personal) disdain for bundling -- seemingly -- EVERYTHING.
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Old 04-24-2018, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by markcincinnati View Post
I agree, DAP is a game changer.

DAP is, essentially, Level II Automation (plus some other automatic features, e.g., headlight control). It includes Traffic Jam Assist (which is remarkable), Adaptive Cruise Control, Lane Departure Mitigation and a whole host of features and "senses" that provide the capabilities generally called "Level II" (of 5) autonomy.

I, too, had initially thought HUD was a novelty -- now I see it as a technology that keeps your eyes on the road almost all of the time.

And, no, you really can't load up a P+ to Prestige -- it's a marketing decision made by "Audi of America" I would imagine.

My last S4 was P+, I am a convert to Prestige, despite my (personal) disdain for bundling -- seemingly -- EVERYTHING.
Thank you Mark. Do you know if Voice Control and Side Assist comes standard on the Premium Plus 18’ S4? If not, are they available to purchase in packages? I’m trying to decide if it’s worth the extra money for Prestige. All I care for is the Virtual Cockpit, Voice Control and maybe Side Assist. I don’t need HUD because the Virtual Cockpit is so informative and I’d rather look at that beautiful huge screen. Otherwise I won’t look at it at all with HUD so if defeats the purpose of having the Virtual Cockpit in my opinion. Appreciate your prompt responses!

Last edited by heynowbababooey; 04-24-2018 at 06:47 AM.
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Old 04-24-2018, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by heynowbababooey View Post


Thank you Mark. Do you know if Voice Control and Side Assist comes standard on the Premium Plus 18’ S4? If not, are they available to purchase in packages? I’m trying to decide if it’s worth the extra money for Prestige. All I care for is the Virtual Cockpit, Voice Control and maybe Side Assist. I don’t need HUD because the Virtual Cockpit is so informative and I’d rather look at that beautiful huge screen. Otherwise I won’t look at it at all with HUD so if defeats the purpose of having the Virtual Cockpit in my opinion. Appreciate your prompt responses!
Navigation package: $2,600
  • Audi connect PRIME & PLUS (6 month trial subscription)
  • Audi virtual cockpit
  • MMI® Navigation plus with MMI® touch
  • 8.3" MMI® center screen
You're going to be spending, IMHO, close to Prestige money and not getting all that the Prestige package (and the ability to get DAP) has to offer. The DAP's features are either standard or available on Honda's, KIA's and Toyota's for pity's sake. You will regret not having DAP (and HUD) I'd wager in less than 18 months. If you're going to load up a P+, you are "within reach" of a Prestige with "Paint, Seats, DAP and Beam Rings) all for (before discount) less than $61K. If you just refuse to get the Prestige (out of what, principle?), get the top-spec AWD KIA Stinger which will be over $9,000 less and will have these features. With respect: You will regret not getting the DAP (which requires Prestige). Besides you get the dual pane glass and the HUD.

P+ (see below) standard:
Infotainment Technology
  • 7.0” MMI® center infotainment display
  • Audi connect® CARE assistance and security services 7
  • Bang & Olufsen® sound system with 3D sound with 19 speakers, 16-channel amplifier and 755 watts Voice control system
  • 7.0" color driver information system
  • Audi smartphone interface including Apple CarPlay™ and Google™ Android Auto™ 8
  • HD Radio™ Technology
  • SiriusXM® Satellite Radio with 90-day trial subscription 9
  • SDXC card slots with 64GB operating capacity (dual slots)
  • Cruise control with coast, resume and accelerate features
  • Audi music interface with two USB ports for data and charging connection
  • BLUETOOTH® wireless technology preparation for compatible mobile phones 10
  • BLUETOOTH® streaming audio for compatible devices 10
  • SDXC card slots with 64GB operating capacity (dual slots)
  • Audi advanced key – keyless start, stop and entry with hands-free trunk release 11
  • Parking system plus with rear view camera (front and rear acoustic sensors) 12
  • Audi side assist and Audi pre sense® rear with Rear cross traffic assist with Vehicle exit assist 12
  • Audi pre sense® basic 12
  • Audi pre sense® city 12
  • Audi drive select
  • Rain/light sensor for automatic windshield wipers and headlights
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Old 04-24-2018, 08:48 AM
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As usual, Mark is full of good information and you should read everything he has to say as you make your decision. However, I have a slightly different view on the DAP and HUD, so I will throw in my two cents for your consideration. I don't think either the DAP or HUD are must-have features, and I didn't get them on my car.

I'll start with the HUD because it's less controversial. I think it offers limited utility, and certainly isn't a feature I've ever wanted or looked for in a car. When you're driving, you're never looking forward out of the windshield 100% of the time. HUD or not, you're constantly scanning your mirrors, indicators, blind spots, cabin, etc. Glancing down at the speedometer or virtual cockpit is second nature to any driver, and something you will be doing anyway. So I don't find the HUD to be very useful, even under good circumstances. The HUD is especially worthless to me because most of the time when I am driving, I am wearing polarized sunglasses. The HUD will not be visible with horizontally-polarized glasses. One other minor point... I think the gaping hole in the dash in front of the gauge cluster that houses the HUD projector is pretty ugly.

Onto DAP. Audi gets a lot of criticism for not including DAP as a standard feature. It's true that manufacturers from KIA on up are including this kind of automation in their vehicles, so in one sense, it seems silly that Audi is charging extra for it. On the other hand, one of the reasons I purchased an S4 was because it was still possible to order a car without it. I got this car to drive it, not to be assisted in my driving. I'm even glad that the auto-hi beams aren't included in the Premium Plus model. I had that feature on my previous car, and turned it off so I could control the hi-beams. I think the current level of automation being included in cars is of very limited utility. I haven't used it much in the S4 because I didn't order mine with it, but I have driven cars with similar functionality. The novelty wore off quickly and the circumstances quickly added up where the system didn't work as expected or worked in a way that was counter to how I prefer to drive. So now when I drive those cars, I deactivate the DAP-like features almost immediately. I also don't think DAP will provide much by way of long-term value. We are truly at the very beginning stages of vehicle automation, and in 2-5 years, the systems being offered today will look quaint and outdated. I don't think anyone looking at a second-hand S4 in 5 years is going to care about the DAP features.

While I haven't verified it myself, it is also my understanding that both DAP and HUD could add to the maintenance costs of both cars. HUD requires a windshield with a specific coating, and that means the cost of replacing the windshield will be higher. And I believe DAP must be calibrated after certain maintenance like alignment or removal of the front bumper. I've heard it's not cheap. Perhaps someone else can chime in and tell us if this is correct. If it is, I don't think the additional future costs, plus the upfront cost of the DAP, are justified by its current limited utility.

This is all just my opinion. Take it for what it is and get what's right for you.

Last edited by daniel1113; 04-24-2018 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 04-24-2018, 08:46 PM
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I actually like "arguing" to advance an idea, perhaps even persuade, but I can't think of any tactful way to respond to Daniel's well-said argument. I'll give it a try: I appreciate not believing (one at a time) DAP and HUD are must-have features. I remember my thoughts several years ago: "Who in their right mind would want, let alone need, a camera in a phone?" The list of technologies that some adopt early and some wait to adopt are legion. My clients (who will remain nameless) were thinking about FAX machines not that long ago ("who would need . . . ?"). Of course, once you use some of the technologies you have eschewed, it is often the case that they become necessities.

It is, of course, up to each individual to adopt or not adopt fill-in-the-blank. It is fine to argue in favor of or against fill-in-the-blank under any circumstances. It is, however, difficult to explain how something is rather useless that you have purposely avoided and don't have. It is possible, for instance, that HUD offers limited utility. It is hard to come to that conclusion if you currently (or ever) don't have it. A long test-drive is insufficient to develop anything other than "initial, cursory" thoughts on the technology. If "many" individuals with perhaps at least 6-12 months experience with their own S4 with HUD concluded the tech offered "limited utility," well, that would seem to me to be of some considerable value. If the HUD kept your eyes on the road .25 to .5 seconds at 60 MPH at one critical juncture, the savings (in distance) would amount to 22-44 feet which could be the safety margin you need to prevent a negative outcome.

Further tit for tat arguments could certainly be made, but it would be my hope that folks don't think -- literally -- that the HUD is "especially worthless". It is fine to be against a technology, but I'm old enough to remember when seat belts were first put in cars (in the '60's) -- there were so many folks who argued that you wanted to be "thrown clear" of the crash and only wimps and other insulting names would use them. There is room for late adopters, to be sure. My belief is that HUD is a valuable technology that is better to have than not. Audi side-assist, on the other hand, is, for me, a must-have. I can think of no argument against it that is not, ultimately, specious.

DAP is another technology that, although in its early stages is rapidly becoming a must-have simply because 90% of all "traffic/auto incidents" are caused by human error (source: AAA) -- and technologies, like DAP, are able to reduce the incidence and prevalence of human error by assisting and sometimes intervening to prevent or at least mitigate "problems". Further, to argue against DAP without thousands and thousands of miles worth of behind the wheel experience is to argue from a position absent of facts. The system in Audi's S4's is not novel -- it is something that is like Electronic Stability Control, ABS, Brake-assist and numerous other technologies, that is, the DAP is something drivers can rely on to quite possibly "save their bacon" time and again. It is probably true that in a few years the 2018 DAP will seem outdated -- but, given a choice in 2023 (on the used market) of a 2018 car with DAP and one without, many will opt for Level II automation vs. Level 0 -- the value on the used market, then, would be positive.

It is true -- from a certain perspective -- that whatever you acquire today will very likely be outdated tomorrow (sometimes that is literally true), but that's actually a good thing, since everything advances and gets better, more effective, efficient all of the time. At what point do you "take the plunge" and get that 4K UHD TV, we already are told 8K is coming, seems a shame to go 4K when we know 8K is right around the corner.

It is not my intent to argue that "we" all should become innovators or even early adopters, but it is important to encourage both innovation and [early] adoption, as this "behavior" is what accelerates technology's advancement and, ultimately, move us forward as a culture.

We all, or mostly all, are innovators sometimes and early or late adopters at other times -- and of course most of us, from time to time find ourselves to be laggards. I, to tell on myself, called my "mobile phone" a car-phone and always left my phone in my car since I had been an innovator, having a "car phone" in my 1985 Audi 5000CS turbo quattro. My friends thought I was a laggard, too, when I held onto my Blackberry long after the iPhone was a thing. These days, I strive -- for the good of society, I tell myself -- to adopt the newest and the greatest.

I want to avoid, at all costs being a laggard: "Laggards comprise a group of consumers who avoid change and may not be willing to adopt a new product until all traditional alternatives are no longer available. The group is mostly concerned with reliability and low cost and represents about 16% of the population."

I realize I may have pissed some folks off -- but we need every bit of the technology offered under the general name Driver Assistance and we need more of it and improved versions of it.

On the other hand, if you want to disconnect your ABS, ESP, brake assist, parking sonar, around view monitors and on and on and on, it is, thankfully, still a free country. What ultimately happens, though, is that those who don't adopt can cause safety issues (and insurance and other expenses) to escalate. I don't really care all that much if you want to harm yourself, but when what you do costs the rest of us money or freedom, well that's a problem.

This DAP issue will be short-lived, as it is becoming more and more likely that every vehicle will have it standard equipment.

Now who's in the market for a good ol' flip phone? Or a fax machine? Anyone?

Last edited by markcincinnati; 04-25-2018 at 04:25 AM.
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Old 04-25-2018, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by markcincinnati View Post
I actually like "arguing" to advance an idea, perhaps even persuade, but I can't think of any tactful way to respond to Daniel's well-said argument. I'll give it a try: I appreciate not believing (one at a time) DAP and HUD are must-have features. I remember my thoughts several years ago: "Who in their right mind would want, let alone need, a camera in a phone?" The list of technologies that some adopt early and some wait to adopt are legion. My clients (who will remain nameless) were thinking about FAX machines not that long ago ("who would need . . . ?"). Of course, once you use some of the technologies you have eschewed, it is often the case that they become necessities.

It is, of course, up to each individual to adopt or not adopt fill-in-the-blank. It is fine to argue in favor of or against fill-in-the-blank under any circumstances. It is, however, difficult to explain how something is rather useless that you have purposely avoided and don't have. It is possible, for instance, that HUD offers limited utility. It is hard to come to that conclusion if you currently (or ever) don't have it. A long test-drive is insufficient to develop anything other than "initial, cursory" thoughts on the technology. If "many" individuals with perhaps at least 6-12 months experience with their own S4 with HUD concluded the tech offered "limited utility," well, that would seem to me to be of some considerable value. If the HUD kept your eyes on the road .25 to .5 seconds at 60 MPH at one critical juncture, the savings (in distance) would amount to 22-44 feet which could be the safety margin you need to prevent a negative outcome.

Further tit for tat arguments could certainly be made, but it would be my hope that folks don't think -- literally -- that the HUD is "especially worthless". It is fine to be against a technology, but I'm old enough to remember when seat belts were first put in cars (in the '60's) -- there were so many folks who argued that you wanted to be "thrown clear" of the crash and only wimps and other insulting names would use them. There is room for late adopters, to be sure. My belief is that HUD is a valuable technology that is better to have than not. Audi side-assist, on the other hand, is, for me, a must-have. I can think of no argument against it that is not, ultimately, specious.

DAP is another technology that, although in its early stages is rapidly becoming a must-have simply because 90% of all "traffic/auto incidents" are caused by human error (source: AAA) -- and technologies, like DAP, are able to reduce the incidence and prevalence of human error by assisting and sometimes intervening to prevent or at least mitigate "problems". Further, to argue against DAP without thousands and thousands of miles worth of behind the wheel experience is to argue from a position absent of facts. The system in Audi's S4's is not novel -- it is something that is like Electronic Stability Control, ABS, Brake-assist and numerous other technologies, that is, the DAP is something drivers can rely on to quite possibly "save their bacon" time and again. It is probably true that in a few years the 2018 DAP will seem outdated -- but, given a choice in 2023 (on the used market) of a 2018 car with DAP and one without, many will opt for Level II automation vs. Level 0 -- the value on the used market, then, would be positive.

It is true -- from a certain perspective -- that whatever you acquire today will very likely be outdated tomorrow (sometimes that is literally true), but that's actually a good thing, since everything advances and gets better, more effective, efficient all of the time. At what point do you "take the plunge" and get that 4K UHD TV, we already are told 8K is coming, seems a shame to go 4K when we know 8K is right around the corner.

It is not my intent to argue that "we" all should become innovators or even early adopters, but it is important to encourage both innovation and [early] adoption, as this "behavior" is what accelerates technology's advancement and, ultimately, move us forward as a culture.

We all, or mostly all, are innovators sometimes and early or late adopters at other times -- and of course most of us, from time to time find ourselves to be laggards. I, to tell on myself, called my "mobile phone" a car-phone and always left my phone in my car since I had been an innovator, having a "car phone" in my 1985 Audi 5000CS turbo quattro. My friends thought I was a laggard, too, when I held onto my Blackberry long after the iPhone was a thing. These days, I strive -- for the good of society, I tell myself -- to adopt the newest and the greatest.

I want to avoid, at all costs being a laggard: "Laggards comprise a group of consumers who avoid change and may not be willing to adopt a new product until all traditional alternatives are no longer available. The group is mostly concerned with reliability and low cost and represents about 16% of the population."

I realize I may have pissed some folks off -- but we need every bit of the technology offered under the general name Driver Assistance and we need more of it and improved versions of it.

On the other hand, if you want to disconnect your ABS, ESP, brake assist, parking sonar, around view monitors and on and on and on, it is, thankfully, still a free country. What ultimately happens, though, is that those who don't adopt can cause safety issues (and insurance and other expenses) to escalate. I don't really care all that much if you want to harm yourself, but when what you do costs the rest of us money or freedom, well that's a problem.

This DAP issue will be short-lived, as it is becoming more and more likely that every vehicle will have it standard equipment.

Now who's in the market for a good ol' flip phone? Or a fax machine? Anyone?
Mark, can you list every feature that the HUD in the Prestige S4 does besides showing MPH. Can it show turn by turn navigation? Looking forward to your response.
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