India Whiskey Charlie

This is not about whether or not NAV is a worthwhile option to have, it's about a choice that was given to us only to be taken away later without a reasonable justification to the potential buyer. Period.

markcincinnati

IWC, you are correct. And, my dealer rep said he had about 20 cars ordered for customers that were affected -- 2 of them, then, took a pass. The rep was pissed, said it was the first time EVER that Audi had changed a sold order. Of course, a 90% take rate is probably a clue that what you and I think is irrelevant.

I happen to agree with making nav standard -- I do NOT agree that you should be forced to take it, or if you were forced you should NOT be forced to pay for it.

I know there are upgrades and interfaces that are still "in the minds" of the developers. But, in the mean time, I think Audi HAS to add more content.

Frankly, I don't actually know of anyone who doesn't have nav in their autos. Some of them don't like it, don't use it and a few use their iPhones (which puzzles me, since the Audi system is very easy to use via voice commands), but my personal feelings and opinions aside, the "sin" here is FORCING a customer who placed a legitimate order NOT to get what he/she ordered is the issue.

$2,600 is -- by the way -- too much. But, again, from "this" point forward you can buy something else from another mfrg -- what's the sense here, though? Don't we pretty much think that if Audi is doing this that BMW, Mercedes and WHOEVER is also doing this?

markcincinnati

Let me add yet a bit more clarification -- beyond some hardware, nav is primarily software. There is no reason nav cannot be included and either turned on or NOT turned on. IBM did this years ago. Computing on "demand" (if you paid). There will be, if there isn't already, a point where the hardware will be so inexpensive once every car is equipped with it that ALL options will be possible on ANY car, ordered or not. When the car is delivered, the customer can elect to pay for DAP or not pay for it (bad example, since that WILL be standard if insurance companies get their way -- and they will), you can have any number of heretofore optional extras if you're willing to pay for them. Cars can come in plain and empty and leave all "fancy" and full of all kinds of features. Flip a switch. Look at it this way -- every one of them comes with Sirius XM, you can pay to hear it or ignore it, it is there both ways. Imagine if all the cars came with two turbos but to make the car an RS you had to pay to have the second one activated.

Yes, far-fetched -- today. Maybe not so much tomorrow.

Mass customization via software switches.

Ultimately, one might conclude, you could do to a car what is done with airplanes. The components can be removed and replaced with new ones -- so your 1960 airplane really has the same stuff in it as a 1990 plane and so forth. Of course, you couldn't easily turn a prop into a jet, but the concept is probably able to be realized and rendered -- assuming it can be monetized.

If you're really pissed IWC, you are under no obligation to take the car when it arrives. That'll teach 'em.

Well, probably not.

Sheffield

On top of this apple just announced google maps and waze are getting added to carplay (if you use, which I do) with ios12. Anyway, it does suck that it sounds like they may be removing the non-nav option entirely.

frankrockford

Not sure why one would "dislike" the virtual cockpit, it is absolutely amazing on the S4 with the single gauge in the center that has RPM's and Speed. You've probably only seen the A4 VC which is not the same as the S4 variant.

farmerjones

As someone that owns an iPhone and have Virtual Cockpit with nav I can't understand why anyone would want to use their iPhone with their tiny screen and some ugly mount (or worse, hold it in their hand while they drive and look at it). I don't think you can fully understand until you own the VC just how well integrated and compete of a system this is. I never have to take my hands off the wheel to control any nav function, it's more up to date than Apple Maps, and live Google search that is location based provides more relevant than even my iPhone does. I can see store hours, location, call directly with one touch all from the VC, just like on Apple Maps. I find the VC paired with Google is easier to use and much safer than my iPhone and can't image wanting to use my iPhone now. If you do, CarPlay on the VC allows you to, but it's still not as good as the nav built into the car. I wouldn't have had this opinion before I owned a car with the VC...I thought AppleMaps was king. It's not. Having in-car band-specific nav is not about to become obsolete, but it my opinion just about to go mainstream and become better than ever and standard on everything. It appears Audi has already done this and will make nav standard. I guess there will always be people that don't like the VC (which is unexplainable to me) or don't wan't Audi Nav (which is better than AppleMaps) but they will be in the minority and are too small of a % to cater to any longer. If you MUST use Waze or whatever that's coming to CarPlay shortly. Audi's system is about to get a huge upgrade in functionality (as see with the A8/A7/A6/Q8), and it will soon be across the line up. I think you will find it a week you will be hooked on VC with nav and be so excited your car has it. I think you will be surprised at it's abilities and streamlined (and safe) use.

markcincinnati

farmerjones -- I'm with you. However, I also understand there are folks who -- in good faith -- ordered a new car spec'd a certain way (and there is no reason it can't be built that way) only to have additional "features" be mandated by the mfgr. I know it would be difficult, but it seems to me that the customer should either have the chance to buy what they want or at least NOT be charged for a feature (that, in the case of the nav, could be turned off) they don't want.

Now, in the case of the VC, I recently was loaned a 2018 A6 and found the "old" analog dials and gauges to be "less desirable."

I've become very sensitive to this notion due to the fact that my company developed a set of software and our prospect -- a game changingly large opportunity -- told us "you have to make your software LOOK modern." We undertook a UI project to take what our prospect says "looked like a flip phone" and make it look like an iPhone X. Now that we've got most of the development completed and the product is in Beta, I have come to appreciate the VC in my 2018 S4 all the more. And, when I get in a new Audi, even an RS7, it looks old and tired compared to the VC in the S4. The graphics, the functionality, the look and human interaction are not just cosmetic they're transformative with respect to how the human and the machine work together.

Another case in point: My wife has an EXTENSIVE collection of EXPENSIVE watches -- probably the only thing she doesn't have is a Rolex. Her Tags, Bulgari, Omega and Montblancs costing thousands are essentially in a lock box EVER since I sprung for a $699 Apple watch with an expensive leather band -- hell, her iPhone X and her Apple Watch are rarely more than 5 feet from her. When I ask her why she won't wear the Omega or the Bulgari, she holds out her wrist and says something like: "I don't think you can fully understand until you own the VC (but she says Apple watch) just how well integrated and compete of a system this is."

On the other hand, I've been on both the early adopter edge and the luddite/laggard edge myself -- so I kind of get it. But damn, the VC really is a "modern marvel" -- it too, soon, will be standard equipment (probably because it is #1 Better, #2 Preferred by paying customers (the market), and #3 actually contributes to lowering the cost of production vs the purely analog dials and gauges.)

I get into one of these cars without the VC and I think it something of a museum piece rather than a state of the art vehicle which Audi, perhaps more than its other German rivals, strives to be known for producing.

Yet, "to each his/her own."

Sheffield

Agreed. This is the real stinker part of the situation. The extra $2,500 or so added on to the price tag. I understand the reasoning from the production side but it's still unfortunate. This would have burned me a bit since I used the reduced price of both the VC/Nav package and the sport package to justify (in my head at least) the cost of the ridiculous price for Audi exclusive paint.

That said if they would have given me VC/Nav I would have still shelled out the extra $$$ and I'm sure I'd still be loving the car.

One of my reasons for forgoing the VC/Nav in the first place is that I've yet to have a car with a nav screen that didn't look dated in 3-4 years when I get a loaner with updated screen. I plan on keeping this car longer than 5+ years and figured the VC would surely look dated by then. Maybe I'm just comparing apples and oranges here and the VC will still look great in 2023 but that was my line of thinking when I ordered the car. I know the analog gauge resolution will look just as crisp in 5 years.

Eli McCraig

India Whiskey Charlie