Anyone fought a 'pacing' ticket before?
07-02-2001, 08:02 AM
#1
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Anyone fought a 'pacing' ticket before?
Got one a few weeks ago in Va. The cruiser saw me coming off a ramp fast and 'paced' me. Thing was that it was probably less than 1/4 mile until he signalled me to pull over. Visibility was bad (raining) and a lot of traffic.
What do you guys think? Worth it to fight the ticket?
Have to say, this S4 has got me and my wife into more trouble than any other car...why does it have to be so quiet and effortless?
Cheers.
What do you guys think? Worth it to fight the ticket?
Have to say, this S4 has got me and my wife into more trouble than any other car...why does it have to be so quiet and effortless?
Cheers.
07-02-2001, 08:34 AM
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Moving about 1/8th mile away
He was moving about 1/8+ mile away on the interstate I was merging into. I noticed him coming up fast about 15 car lengths away a little while after I merged.
If you're familar, its the I-66 merge onto I-495. I-66 is elevated so he could not see me until I got onto I-495.
I bet he estimated the speed, but I wonder if it'll hold up in court for Virginia.
If you're familar, its the I-66 merge onto I-495. I-66 is elevated so he could not see me until I got onto I-495.
I bet he estimated the speed, but I wonder if it'll hold up in court for Virginia.
07-02-2001, 08:57 AM
#4
Normally I would say don't but...
your circumstances seem to indicate there could have been considerable error in his judgement.
1/4 mile is plenty of time actually to pace you but the weather and stuff would be on your side in this instance.
Pacing in some US courts holds more credance than radar and lidar. That is why I wouldn't fight a 'pacing' ticket unless it meant huge points on my license.
1/4 mile is plenty of time actually to pace you but the weather and stuff would be on your side in this instance.
Pacing in some US courts holds more credance than radar and lidar. That is why I wouldn't fight a 'pacing' ticket unless it meant huge points on my license.
07-02-2001, 09:01 AM
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Re: Moving about 1/8th mile away
I'm not a lawyer and I'm kinda unclear about your case, but check this out. I'd contest it and see what happens..
§ 46.2-882. Determining speed with various devices; certificate as to accuracy of device; arrest without warrant.
The speed of any motor vehicle may be determined by the use of (i) a laser speed determination device, (ii) radar, (iii) a microcomputer device that is physically connected to an odometer cable and both measures and records distance traveled and elapsed time to determine the average speed of a motor vehicle, or (iv) a microcomputer device that is located aboard an airplane or helicopter and measures and records distance traveled and elapsed time to determine the average speed of a motor vehicle being operated on highways within the Interstate System of highways as defined in § 33.1-48. The results of such determinations shall be accepted as prima facie evidence of the speed of such motor vehicle in any court or legal proceeding where the speed of the motor vehicle is at issue.
In any court or legal proceeding in which any question arises about the calibration or accuracy of any laser speed determination device, radar, or microcomputer device as described in this section used to determine the speed of any motor vehicle, a certificate, or a true copy thereof, showing the calibration or accuracy of the speedometer of any vehicle or of any tuning fork employed in calibrating or testing the device, and when and by whom the calibration was made, shall be admissible as evidence of the facts therein stated. No calibration or testing of such device shall be valid for longer than six months.
The driver of any such motor vehicle may be arrested without a warrant under this section if the arresting officer is in uniform and displays his badge of authority and if the officer has observed the registration of the speed of such motor vehicle by the laser speed determination device, radar, or microcomputer device as described in this section, or has received a radio message from the officer who observed the speed of the motor vehicle registered by the laser speed determination device, radar, or microcomputer device as described in this section. However, in case of an arrest based on such a message, such radio message shall have been dispatched immediately after the speed of the motor vehicle was registered and furnished the license number or other positive identification of the vehicle and the registered speed to the arresting officer.
Neither State Police officers nor local law-enforcement officers shall use laser speed determination devices or radar, as described herein in airplanes or helicopters for the purpose of determining the speed of motor vehicles.
State Police officers may use laser speed determination devices, radar, and/or microcomputer devices as described in this section. All localities may use radar; (i) counties having populations of at least 85,000 but less than 150,000 and towns within such counties; (ii) counties having populations of at least 68,000 but less than 73,000; (iii) counties having populations of at least 79,000 but less than 86,000, (iv) towns having populations of at least 14,000 but less than 15,000 and located within a county operating under the urban county executive form of government; (v) counties having the county manager form of government; (vi) counties having populations of at least 61,000 but less than 63,000; and (vii) cities having populations of at least 40,000 but less than 50,000 may use laser speed determination devices to measure speed. Any county, city or town located within the boundaries of Planning District No. 8 may use laser speed determination devices, radar, or both to measure speed. The Cities of Alexandria, Fairfax, Falls Church, Manassas, and Manassas Park and the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Loudoun, and Prince William and towns within such counties may use microcomputer devices as described in this section.
The Division of Purchases and Supply, pursuant to § 2.2-1112, shall determine the proper equipment used to determine the speed of motor vehicles and shall advise the respective law-enforcement officials of the same. Police chiefs and sheriffs shall ensure that all such equipment and devices purchased on or after July 1, 1986, meet or exceed the standards established by the Division.
Law-enforcement officers using motor vehicle-based microcomputer devices or laser speed determination devices as provided for in this section shall, on request of any affected motorist, permit such motorist to observe the reading on the device. Nothing in this section, however, shall require any law-enforcement officer to allow affected motorists to observe any reading on any microcomputer device on any airplane or helicopter.
§ 46.2-882. Determining speed with various devices; certificate as to accuracy of device; arrest without warrant.
The speed of any motor vehicle may be determined by the use of (i) a laser speed determination device, (ii) radar, (iii) a microcomputer device that is physically connected to an odometer cable and both measures and records distance traveled and elapsed time to determine the average speed of a motor vehicle, or (iv) a microcomputer device that is located aboard an airplane or helicopter and measures and records distance traveled and elapsed time to determine the average speed of a motor vehicle being operated on highways within the Interstate System of highways as defined in § 33.1-48. The results of such determinations shall be accepted as prima facie evidence of the speed of such motor vehicle in any court or legal proceeding where the speed of the motor vehicle is at issue.
In any court or legal proceeding in which any question arises about the calibration or accuracy of any laser speed determination device, radar, or microcomputer device as described in this section used to determine the speed of any motor vehicle, a certificate, or a true copy thereof, showing the calibration or accuracy of the speedometer of any vehicle or of any tuning fork employed in calibrating or testing the device, and when and by whom the calibration was made, shall be admissible as evidence of the facts therein stated. No calibration or testing of such device shall be valid for longer than six months.
The driver of any such motor vehicle may be arrested without a warrant under this section if the arresting officer is in uniform and displays his badge of authority and if the officer has observed the registration of the speed of such motor vehicle by the laser speed determination device, radar, or microcomputer device as described in this section, or has received a radio message from the officer who observed the speed of the motor vehicle registered by the laser speed determination device, radar, or microcomputer device as described in this section. However, in case of an arrest based on such a message, such radio message shall have been dispatched immediately after the speed of the motor vehicle was registered and furnished the license number or other positive identification of the vehicle and the registered speed to the arresting officer.
Neither State Police officers nor local law-enforcement officers shall use laser speed determination devices or radar, as described herein in airplanes or helicopters for the purpose of determining the speed of motor vehicles.
State Police officers may use laser speed determination devices, radar, and/or microcomputer devices as described in this section. All localities may use radar; (i) counties having populations of at least 85,000 but less than 150,000 and towns within such counties; (ii) counties having populations of at least 68,000 but less than 73,000; (iii) counties having populations of at least 79,000 but less than 86,000, (iv) towns having populations of at least 14,000 but less than 15,000 and located within a county operating under the urban county executive form of government; (v) counties having the county manager form of government; (vi) counties having populations of at least 61,000 but less than 63,000; and (vii) cities having populations of at least 40,000 but less than 50,000 may use laser speed determination devices to measure speed. Any county, city or town located within the boundaries of Planning District No. 8 may use laser speed determination devices, radar, or both to measure speed. The Cities of Alexandria, Fairfax, Falls Church, Manassas, and Manassas Park and the Counties of Arlington, Fairfax, Loudoun, and Prince William and towns within such counties may use microcomputer devices as described in this section.
The Division of Purchases and Supply, pursuant to § 2.2-1112, shall determine the proper equipment used to determine the speed of motor vehicles and shall advise the respective law-enforcement officials of the same. Police chiefs and sheriffs shall ensure that all such equipment and devices purchased on or after July 1, 1986, meet or exceed the standards established by the Division.
Law-enforcement officers using motor vehicle-based microcomputer devices or laser speed determination devices as provided for in this section shall, on request of any affected motorist, permit such motorist to observe the reading on the device. Nothing in this section, however, shall require any law-enforcement officer to allow affected motorists to observe any reading on any microcomputer device on any airplane or helicopter.
07-02-2001, 09:17 AM
#6
AudiWorld Senior Member
Don't waste your time, unless it's critical for your license-->
I got nailed the same way in Va on Jan 2.
According to the law, they only need to match your speed (pace) you for a few seconds to determine your speed. Also remember they are specifically trained to in speed detection using radar, vascar and must have completed a training course in "visual estimation of vehicle speed" or something like that. IF you choose to fight the ticket, the officer will state all of this in his opening statement. He will also state that you were paced by his vehicle (and will give the #) and that said vehicle has a speedometer that is "certified" to be accurate.
It's close to impossible to win a speeding ticket, from my experience.
According to the law, they only need to match your speed (pace) you for a few seconds to determine your speed. Also remember they are specifically trained to in speed detection using radar, vascar and must have completed a training course in "visual estimation of vehicle speed" or something like that. IF you choose to fight the ticket, the officer will state all of this in his opening statement. He will also state that you were paced by his vehicle (and will give the #) and that said vehicle has a speedometer that is "certified" to be accurate.
It's close to impossible to win a speeding ticket, from my experience.
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07-02-2001, 11:18 AM
#8
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Yes.. here's how.
The DA asked the officer blah blah blah about his expertise and extensive training at measuring time and distances.
My turn, I cross-examined the arresting officer and asked him how long he thought the courtroom was (I anticipated this and measured before the start of trial @30ft.). He hemmed and hawed and said 80 feet. Everyone in the courtroom broke out laughing and I got off my ticket!
My turn, I cross-examined the arresting officer and asked him how long he thought the courtroom was (I anticipated this and measured before the start of trial @30ft.). He hemmed and hawed and said 80 feet. Everyone in the courtroom broke out laughing and I got off my ticket!
07-02-2001, 11:36 AM
#9
AudiWorld Senior Member
Yes, but you can guarantee that the speedo is calibrated more often than that-->
otherwise they wouldn't be able to hold any legal ground.
Also, you must br prepared for the fact that while pacing may have been the means to verify his speed, his visual observation (and the fact that I stated about the visual estimation of speed training) would be more than enough to win in a court battle.
Also, you must br prepared for the fact that while pacing may have been the means to verify his speed, his visual observation (and the fact that I stated about the visual estimation of speed training) would be more than enough to win in a court battle.
07-03-2001, 01:37 PM
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ALWAYS fight your ticket - I've beat/plea-bargained down my last three speeding tickets
Always fight. Follow the link for some useful info:<ul><li><a href="http://www.motorists.org">National Motorists Association</a></li></ul>
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