M3 vs.S4 -no flame -real questions...
04-26-2000, 10:36 AM
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M3 vs.S4 -no flame -real questions...
Hi guys - I'm a current owner of an e36 M3/4 - I love the car but had been planning to upgrade this summer/fall - It looks as though bimmer is not going to be sending out any E46 M3/4s any time soon - or at all - So I'd like to gather some of your feed back regarding the S4...your views on performance, finish, 6 speed and triptronic...thanks. The S4 seems to be an overall great car...Mtrea
04-26-2000, 10:58 AM
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comparisons have been well documented....go to caranddriver.com....
I love the car...it's incredible..but I've never owned an M3. Go to caranddriver.com and search for S4..and you'll find the comparison test they did.
04-26-2000, 11:10 AM
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My observations (long)...
I can't give you any first hand ownership feedback (I'm ordering my S4 on Friday) but I did shop it against the BMW - in fact, until I test drove the Audi, I was sold on the bimmer.
Performance:
Utterly outstanding. It's amazing to drive a car that performs this well and effortlessly. Tac it out to four grand, drop the clutch and you're gone - no wheelspin. In normal driving, power is immediately available without down-shifting (took a very long test drive). The suspension is a little softer than the M3 and it does have a little more body role but this is not a big issue for me (this will be my daily driver). I also tested it on a rainy day and this is where the quattro really shines - gobs of traction in wet and dry. I guarantee you won't be disappointed.
Fit and Finish:
Top notch. I tend to be a perfectionist and this was a big issue for me so I looked to my in-law's '99 ('98?) A6 to see how the Audi's hold up. After 2 years, no rattles or creaks and they've only had a couple of minor problems that were quickly resolved by the dealer. The materials on the S4 are comparable to other cars in its class (i.e. Mercedes, BMW, etc...) and seem to hold up well. Because of this, it would expect nothing less from the S4.
Transmission:
I've only driven the 6spd and I'm not crazy about the shifter. The throws are a tad long and the gates are a little imprecise. From what they folks here say, UUC has a short shift kit (check out Stratmosphere's Web Site) that resolves this for under $300. Even with this minor issue, I'm still ordering the 6sp but will add on the short shifter. The Tiptronic on my in-law's A6 is pretty cool. I think it's a matter of personal preference.
I think the biggest selling point for me was how the overall package fits together. I was prepared to buy a 328ci, 5 spd fully loaded for about $42.0K. For the same money I get a fully loaded car (that every option they have on the sheet) plus the all weather security of quattro and M3 performance. This was a slam dunk for me.
It's possible the new M3 may outperform the S4 in stock form (no flames please - no one knows for sure yet) but at premium. I hear the new E46 M3 will be in the $55K-60K range.
My .02...
This Friday - I order :-)
Santorin/Onyx, 6spd
Conv, Cold, Bose
Joe
Performance:
Utterly outstanding. It's amazing to drive a car that performs this well and effortlessly. Tac it out to four grand, drop the clutch and you're gone - no wheelspin. In normal driving, power is immediately available without down-shifting (took a very long test drive). The suspension is a little softer than the M3 and it does have a little more body role but this is not a big issue for me (this will be my daily driver). I also tested it on a rainy day and this is where the quattro really shines - gobs of traction in wet and dry. I guarantee you won't be disappointed.
Fit and Finish:
Top notch. I tend to be a perfectionist and this was a big issue for me so I looked to my in-law's '99 ('98?) A6 to see how the Audi's hold up. After 2 years, no rattles or creaks and they've only had a couple of minor problems that were quickly resolved by the dealer. The materials on the S4 are comparable to other cars in its class (i.e. Mercedes, BMW, etc...) and seem to hold up well. Because of this, it would expect nothing less from the S4.
Transmission:
I've only driven the 6spd and I'm not crazy about the shifter. The throws are a tad long and the gates are a little imprecise. From what they folks here say, UUC has a short shift kit (check out Stratmosphere's Web Site) that resolves this for under $300. Even with this minor issue, I'm still ordering the 6sp but will add on the short shifter. The Tiptronic on my in-law's A6 is pretty cool. I think it's a matter of personal preference.
I think the biggest selling point for me was how the overall package fits together. I was prepared to buy a 328ci, 5 spd fully loaded for about $42.0K. For the same money I get a fully loaded car (that every option they have on the sheet) plus the all weather security of quattro and M3 performance. This was a slam dunk for me.
It's possible the new M3 may outperform the S4 in stock form (no flames please - no one knows for sure yet) but at premium. I hear the new E46 M3 will be in the $55K-60K range.
My .02...
This Friday - I order :-)
Santorin/Onyx, 6spd
Conv, Cold, Bose
Joe
04-26-2000, 11:25 AM
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Re: M3 vs.S4 -no flame -real questions...
Hi,
I have a 1998 4-door M3 (3.2L engine) and I am currently waiting for my 2000 S4 (should have it within a month). Personally, I am hard pressed to say one is better or worse.
My impression from having driven both cars is that the M3 is the wilder of the two. The handling of the M3 is superior, but the ride is noticibly harsher. Granted that, concidering how good the handling of the M3 is, the ride compliance is fantastic, but the S4's ride does feel smoother. The steering of the M3 is also better. It is more precise and direct, and provides a great deal of feedback w/o being jerked left and right by road imperfections. By comparison, the S4's steering is also very precise, but it feels a bit numb-er than the M3. This numbness, coupled with the slightly softer suspension, leads to a bit less feedback to the driver. However, unless you are racing the cars (which I do not), you probably won't be bothered by these differences. Also, I feel that the S4's styling is a bit too muted for it's own good. Sure, the M3 looks like a regular 328, but it is different enough for people to look twice.
Now for some S4 superlatives. The interior of the S4 is definitely better looking than the M3. Both provide leather, but the S4 just feels better and provides the Aluminum trim and two-tone seatinf surfaces. By contrast, the M3's "stiff" feeling interior (with all it's straight lines and sharp edges) can be a bit off-putting. The S4's more flowing design is more welcoming. Also, the S4 provides more luxury features standard than the M3 (one of my only true complaints about the M3). The only downside to the S4's interior is space. It is noticibly more cramped than the M3, but both are small cars.
As for the engines, we all know that the M3's engine is one of the greatest ever. However, you still need to get the revs up to get into the power band. Not so with the S4. With the two turbos working, you get all the torque by 2000 rpm. However, both cars have fantastic mid-range power (what really counts on the highway). The M3 also provides you with some good engine/exhaust growl, but the drone can become annoying when you are tooling around town in 3rd/4th grears at middling speeds (20-30 mph). By contrast, the S4 does not make much noise to speak of. In a way this is good, but you would like to get that gratification of an evil snarl when you stomp the gas. I have the 5-speed auto in my M3, and it is super smooth, but it will get aggressive if you ask (espesially in "sport" mode) and seems to know when you want to shift. I drove the tip-tronic in the S4 (you can see that I do not care for manual transmisions) and it shifts smoothly as well. I didn't get a chance to play with the manual shift gate, but I suspect that it is more of a diversion than something you will use regularly.
The fit-and-finish of both cars is just what you would expect with a german auto. The niggle I found w/ the M3 is that it seems to eat up its coolant fluid pretty quickly, but that is not too big a deal. Both cars have great breaks and all the airbags you could want (you can get rear seat airbags in the S4).
In conclusion, both cars are great performers and you will be happy with either one. The M3 is more of a raw-edged, "I'm gonna stick my foot up yo' ***" wild child, while the S4 is more of a subdued, "bitch slap you up-side the head when you ain't lookin'" gentleman.
I hope this helps. It's too bad you are upgrading, rather than adding to, your transportation
I have a 1998 4-door M3 (3.2L engine) and I am currently waiting for my 2000 S4 (should have it within a month). Personally, I am hard pressed to say one is better or worse.
My impression from having driven both cars is that the M3 is the wilder of the two. The handling of the M3 is superior, but the ride is noticibly harsher. Granted that, concidering how good the handling of the M3 is, the ride compliance is fantastic, but the S4's ride does feel smoother. The steering of the M3 is also better. It is more precise and direct, and provides a great deal of feedback w/o being jerked left and right by road imperfections. By comparison, the S4's steering is also very precise, but it feels a bit numb-er than the M3. This numbness, coupled with the slightly softer suspension, leads to a bit less feedback to the driver. However, unless you are racing the cars (which I do not), you probably won't be bothered by these differences. Also, I feel that the S4's styling is a bit too muted for it's own good. Sure, the M3 looks like a regular 328, but it is different enough for people to look twice.
Now for some S4 superlatives. The interior of the S4 is definitely better looking than the M3. Both provide leather, but the S4 just feels better and provides the Aluminum trim and two-tone seatinf surfaces. By contrast, the M3's "stiff" feeling interior (with all it's straight lines and sharp edges) can be a bit off-putting. The S4's more flowing design is more welcoming. Also, the S4 provides more luxury features standard than the M3 (one of my only true complaints about the M3). The only downside to the S4's interior is space. It is noticibly more cramped than the M3, but both are small cars.
As for the engines, we all know that the M3's engine is one of the greatest ever. However, you still need to get the revs up to get into the power band. Not so with the S4. With the two turbos working, you get all the torque by 2000 rpm. However, both cars have fantastic mid-range power (what really counts on the highway). The M3 also provides you with some good engine/exhaust growl, but the drone can become annoying when you are tooling around town in 3rd/4th grears at middling speeds (20-30 mph). By contrast, the S4 does not make much noise to speak of. In a way this is good, but you would like to get that gratification of an evil snarl when you stomp the gas. I have the 5-speed auto in my M3, and it is super smooth, but it will get aggressive if you ask (espesially in "sport" mode) and seems to know when you want to shift. I drove the tip-tronic in the S4 (you can see that I do not care for manual transmisions) and it shifts smoothly as well. I didn't get a chance to play with the manual shift gate, but I suspect that it is more of a diversion than something you will use regularly.
The fit-and-finish of both cars is just what you would expect with a german auto. The niggle I found w/ the M3 is that it seems to eat up its coolant fluid pretty quickly, but that is not too big a deal. Both cars have great breaks and all the airbags you could want (you can get rear seat airbags in the S4).
In conclusion, both cars are great performers and you will be happy with either one. The M3 is more of a raw-edged, "I'm gonna stick my foot up yo' ***" wild child, while the S4 is more of a subdued, "bitch slap you up-side the head when you ain't lookin'" gentleman.
I hope this helps. It's too bad you are upgrading, rather than adding to, your transportation
04-26-2000, 11:39 AM
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I think "Winder" has said it all. One test drive and the next thing.......
I know there is one in my garage. I like both cars very much. I have driven both cars and my personal opinion is that the S4 out the box, is the best combination of sport and luxury that you can find. Especially for its price range. Not to mention with just a change of the chip, you have a 300HP sleeper.....hehehe. Its like Dr. Jykell (spelling ?) and Mr. Hyde. Enough said,
GO DRIVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
00 S4
Silver/Silver
Dead bugs on front end
Crack on passenger side of windshield.
Enough said, GO DRIVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
00 S4
Silver/Silver
Dead bugs on front end
Crack on passenger side of windshield.
04-26-2000, 11:45 AM
#7
Some answers...
Having owned an M3 I can be "fairly" un-biased.
Performance is well documented and all true. This car scoots. Very close in all respects to BMW. It has clearly superior all-weather performance than the BMW.
The BMW 6-speed is far nicer than the S4. A bit shorter throw and much more precise.
The Tiptronic 5 speed is far superior to the BMW. The shift points are more controllable and shifting is smoother and more predictible.
By finish, if you mean fit and finish and quality of materials I would put Audi against ANY auto manufacturer. They are built like tanks. Seams are straight and tight and VERY well put together all around. Compared to BMW I think anything from Audi is better than anything from Spartanburg (by a long shot) and I think rate better than the German-built cars as well. I think the "look" of the interior in the S4 is far more expensive looking than the M3.
Paint is excellent on both cars.
IMO, of course.
Performance is well documented and all true. This car scoots. Very close in all respects to BMW. It has clearly superior all-weather performance than the BMW.
The BMW 6-speed is far nicer than the S4. A bit shorter throw and much more precise.
The Tiptronic 5 speed is far superior to the BMW. The shift points are more controllable and shifting is smoother and more predictible.
By finish, if you mean fit and finish and quality of materials I would put Audi against ANY auto manufacturer. They are built like tanks. Seams are straight and tight and VERY well put together all around. Compared to BMW I think anything from Audi is better than anything from Spartanburg (by a long shot) and I think rate better than the German-built cars as well. I think the "look" of the interior in the S4 is far more expensive looking than the M3.
Paint is excellent on both cars.
IMO, of course.
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04-26-2000, 01:17 PM
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geesh...thanks "R". seemed like a simple solution to me!!!....
... of course the hard part is after you test-drive one... all the freakin' time it takes to do the biz deal to GET to put it one in your garage!!!
then... you get home and you can't turn the garage light off and shut the door and go inside the house.....
w
then... you get home and you can't turn the garage light off and shut the door and go inside the house.....
w