I WON!!!!! Stage III+
12-20-2005, 09:08 AM
#11
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A400 shut the f*ck up
A400 this guy comes on and says he won a STAGE 3+ kit, just for buying an exhaust and you want to rain on his parade with your bull****. Are you saying you wouldnt be excited if you won a stage 3+ kit
would you throw it in the trash because its APR?
no you wouldnt, and you sure as hell woulnt trash on APR ever again.
you seriously need to get your head examined this guy is excited he just DOUBLED his horsepower and then some because of APR having this giveaway, and he said some nice things about them that were his opinions, keep your negative BS off this forum
would you throw it in the trash because its APR?
no you wouldnt, and you sure as hell woulnt trash on APR ever again.
you seriously need to get your head examined this guy is excited he just DOUBLED his horsepower and then some because of APR having this giveaway, and he said some nice things about them that were his opinions, keep your negative BS off this forum
12-20-2005, 09:46 AM
#12
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I would say this is not a singular exception...
Rod, please don't paint us into a corner because you bought one of our worn out test mules.
<B>..the US market is decades behind the Euro turers for Audis.</B>
Sorry, but you could not be more wrong on this one. This is a common misconception but the truth is actually just the opposite. The American market is much more lucrative for serious Audi/VW tuning. The European market is more focused on aesthetic items such as body kits and <B>mild</B> performance enhancers- chips, exhausts. Think about it, when is the last time an innovation came from a German tuner? Last I can recall would be the fabulous work done by Oettinger in the 80's (whom we now own btw.) Most of the companies you mentioned outsource all of their serious design work such as CAD (we do ours in-house.) Their chips are created using tools sold to them by a few companies (EVC, etc.) that are setup to serve the "tuner" market- <B>NOT FROM THE FACTORY</B>. They rely solely on these companies to keep them in the chip market. APR and GIAC (I hope they don't mind me mentioning them), both American companies, create their <B>OWN</B> software tools and <B>DO NOT</B> rely on these aftermarket suppliers for any of their tools. Our familiarity with the Motronic system is completely outside the league of the companies that you mentioned. This is because we employ people who specialize in engine calibration AND programming rather than rely on outsiders. We are able to get more power because our chips are more sophisticated and we go deeper into the Motronic system. You say that Roland should be embarrassed. Well I would be embarrassed should the opposite have happened in the comparison mentioned.
Brett
APR
<B>..the US market is decades behind the Euro turers for Audis.</B>
Sorry, but you could not be more wrong on this one. This is a common misconception but the truth is actually just the opposite. The American market is much more lucrative for serious Audi/VW tuning. The European market is more focused on aesthetic items such as body kits and <B>mild</B> performance enhancers- chips, exhausts. Think about it, when is the last time an innovation came from a German tuner? Last I can recall would be the fabulous work done by Oettinger in the 80's (whom we now own btw.) Most of the companies you mentioned outsource all of their serious design work such as CAD (we do ours in-house.) Their chips are created using tools sold to them by a few companies (EVC, etc.) that are setup to serve the "tuner" market- <B>NOT FROM THE FACTORY</B>. They rely solely on these companies to keep them in the chip market. APR and GIAC (I hope they don't mind me mentioning them), both American companies, create their <B>OWN</B> software tools and <B>DO NOT</B> rely on these aftermarket suppliers for any of their tools. Our familiarity with the Motronic system is completely outside the league of the companies that you mentioned. This is because we employ people who specialize in engine calibration AND programming rather than rely on outsiders. We are able to get more power because our chips are more sophisticated and we go deeper into the Motronic system. You say that Roland should be embarrassed. Well I would be embarrassed should the opposite have happened in the comparison mentioned.
Brett
APR
12-21-2005, 06:04 AM
#13
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Opinions vary and ours obviously do.
I have said I would refrain with comments on other peoples setups and I certainly plan on doing that. But as much as I do not agree with you, I know that some of what you have stated regarding having an inside track with Audi IS something certain German tuners do have, and they do call Audi engineers who designed the systems to find out exactly how they work and what the limits of the systems are. I guess now that now you also have these inside tracks, and the expertise to use them. I did give you credit for the 2l tuning which is much more than I would have ever thought you would acheive.
As you said the US tuning market is much more lucrative, and making money is a great objective. Make on!
As far as painting you into a corner, I am not holding the brush, you are. I am stating my opinions and until you do a lot more than I have seen so far, they wont change. And as far as the car you sold me being tired (and tired was not the the only word- sloppy beyond reason and safety enter my mind), this is one of the main reasons I have such a low opinion of your company. The standards of work on that machine were so low that I am afraid they led me to beleive your standards were too low for me to bother with! And when I saw back to back comparos on chips I also didnt get big fuzzys, and when I saw the knock tolerances you at least used to run, it completed my view. I am big on personal experience and my personal experience with you is reflected in my publicly shared opinions. Why do you guys care what I think and say anyway? I dont run the 300hp kits you guys make and even if you were able to make a chip to run at the power levels that I am interested in, from what I have seen they would die on the dyno before the tests were done, but then that is public record from past and I am sure I dont need to dwell on that. I have said I would back off chips and tuning with my experience and opinions, be satisfied that I have said what I feel is true - this really isnt much fun anymore. Do your thing, the informed people will make their choices, and the masses will read the advertisements and buy based on some level of beleif.
I quit, I cant say more than I already have.
Rod
As you said the US tuning market is much more lucrative, and making money is a great objective. Make on!
As far as painting you into a corner, I am not holding the brush, you are. I am stating my opinions and until you do a lot more than I have seen so far, they wont change. And as far as the car you sold me being tired (and tired was not the the only word- sloppy beyond reason and safety enter my mind), this is one of the main reasons I have such a low opinion of your company. The standards of work on that machine were so low that I am afraid they led me to beleive your standards were too low for me to bother with! And when I saw back to back comparos on chips I also didnt get big fuzzys, and when I saw the knock tolerances you at least used to run, it completed my view. I am big on personal experience and my personal experience with you is reflected in my publicly shared opinions. Why do you guys care what I think and say anyway? I dont run the 300hp kits you guys make and even if you were able to make a chip to run at the power levels that I am interested in, from what I have seen they would die on the dyno before the tests were done, but then that is public record from past and I am sure I dont need to dwell on that. I have said I would back off chips and tuning with my experience and opinions, be satisfied that I have said what I feel is true - this really isnt much fun anymore. Do your thing, the informed people will make their choices, and the masses will read the advertisements and buy based on some level of beleif.
I quit, I cant say more than I already have.
Rod
12-21-2005, 01:06 PM
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You're right, I shouldn't and really don't care but if I can educate someone I will make an attempt.
Opinions do vary, but the difference here is that yours is an opinion, mine is truth based on fact. I am directly involved in the industry and I know what our competitors are capable of. I have been to these companies personally. Their abilities are WAY, WAY overestimated and the American companies are sometimes unjustly underestimated by some. The lack of innovation from our German counterparts speaks for itself. Funny thing is that many of these companies have attempted to license our technologies.
Brett
APR
Brett
APR
12-21-2005, 02:42 PM
#16
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nnnaaa hohoho..K. And I am sure this is based on stellar results, Motec and Maranelli too.F1 is next
for U guys from what you are saying. U know, I have a degree in computer science and from what I have seen even the fastest supercomputers dont do much if the programmer doesnt know how to accomplish the task. Show me some impressive tuning, push an edge and maybe you will impress me. Make 500wheel HP and torque that lasts 6 hours at full chat and you will have my attention. Educate me by telling me what engine parameter that you look at that everyone isnt aware of and already doing. Build a 4" x 4" intercooler that cools like my 30" x 24". Start publishing in SAE your new and revolutionary tuning methods. Show me you are more than someone who can type and advertise. An engine is an air pump and so far that is all I have seen from you guys! I am willing not only to learn but to admit my mistakes, show me something, it sounds like noise right now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rod
Rod
12-21-2005, 07:45 PM
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Open your eyes Rod!
Look at the innovations that we have brought to the market and then look at those from our European competitors. They have been stagnant. We never said that we were ready for Formula 1. I was merely correcting some erroneous statements that you made regarding the industry and American versus European tuners.
I truly believe that when it comes to comparing the talent at APR and our accomplishments in recent years to our German counterparts there is no comparison. They are stale and haven't brought anything new to the market in years. Heck, look at the turbo technology used on their turbo kits (if you care to call one-off fabrications "kits".) If it wasn't for their geographical advantage and the uninformed public I don't know what much they would have at this point. As their old faithful loses interest and the sole allure of being "European" continues to diminish they will either have to completely revamp themselves and hire in some new talent or face a serious "butt-whipping" from the boys from Auburn, AL and others. (With Oettinger, we now have a name that we can market in Europe and with our new facility we will be able to do alot of things that were not possible before. We have already seen some desperate actions by one of the large names over there in fear of our DPP system that we are now marketing through the Oettinger name.)
Brett
APR
I truly believe that when it comes to comparing the talent at APR and our accomplishments in recent years to our German counterparts there is no comparison. They are stale and haven't brought anything new to the market in years. Heck, look at the turbo technology used on their turbo kits (if you care to call one-off fabrications "kits".) If it wasn't for their geographical advantage and the uninformed public I don't know what much they would have at this point. As their old faithful loses interest and the sole allure of being "European" continues to diminish they will either have to completely revamp themselves and hire in some new talent or face a serious "butt-whipping" from the boys from Auburn, AL and others. (With Oettinger, we now have a name that we can market in Europe and with our new facility we will be able to do alot of things that were not possible before. We have already seen some desperate actions by one of the large names over there in fear of our DPP system that we are now marketing through the Oettinger name.)
Brett
APR
12-22-2005, 05:20 AM
#18
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What innovations, cruise control SW switching? The cast Inconel manifold?
And like I said in an earlier mail, show mw something that makes power and lasts.
The greatest technology in the world means nothing unless you know how to tune a car, and this has been true for a long time, and I dont look for it to change. You may be right about the German tech. who still burn chips and socket them and use KKK turbos. But they can tune a car to a fine line when they wish too. The #'s are out there and with verifiable figures I havent seen from you guys. The chips are safer (knock)and perform better for the 1.8t's and I5's. You are selling futures and I still havent seen the products to back up your claims.
My eyes are wide open, the Japanese make stuff you guys probably reverse engineer, but even when you have all these tools you still need to use them to extract the power from the engines - this is what I havent seen from you - and which has always been consistent with the tuners I am familiar with - they get you power! Being engineers has worked against you in this instance, a good gearhead who learns to use engineering tools will always be waay ahead in my experience. I didnt see a lot of dirty hands in Georgia when I was in your shop.
I am moving beyond depending on any euro or american tuner to program my car - going standalone - even tho I am able to get what I want with the custom programming. I am frustrated with the time it takes for each new step. So this entire discussion is becoming non-meaningful to me as I wont be worrying about what either of you are doing when I install standalone. So all this discussion is for someone else, but up until the 2l B7's you guys havent made the best products. If you now have someone who is a tuner and not an engineer trying to be a tuner, and the great new SW tuning tools that you say, then go back and make some decent chips that dont knock and make some real power! The guys on this list will then be justified in kissing your butts, and you will have walked the walk that matches your talk. You are sounding like typical engineers talking about your great science while your buildings collapse.
SOOOOO I will end my portion of this diatribe, and say put up or shut up. Re-engeneer some of your old chips to be competitive and then you will be doing your customers a favor, and give them a real deal to upgrade. I am beyond needing your help, but most would appreciate your backing up the talk. I would be happy to view your product as inexpensive rather than cheap, and will give you the credit you deserve if you do. Try to be more like Javad at 034-efi or Roy Hall at Autronics and let your product exceed the hype.
Please surprise me, show me you can do more than you say. I will give you credit when you do!
Rod
The greatest technology in the world means nothing unless you know how to tune a car, and this has been true for a long time, and I dont look for it to change. You may be right about the German tech. who still burn chips and socket them and use KKK turbos. But they can tune a car to a fine line when they wish too. The #'s are out there and with verifiable figures I havent seen from you guys. The chips are safer (knock)and perform better for the 1.8t's and I5's. You are selling futures and I still havent seen the products to back up your claims.
My eyes are wide open, the Japanese make stuff you guys probably reverse engineer, but even when you have all these tools you still need to use them to extract the power from the engines - this is what I havent seen from you - and which has always been consistent with the tuners I am familiar with - they get you power! Being engineers has worked against you in this instance, a good gearhead who learns to use engineering tools will always be waay ahead in my experience. I didnt see a lot of dirty hands in Georgia when I was in your shop.
I am moving beyond depending on any euro or american tuner to program my car - going standalone - even tho I am able to get what I want with the custom programming. I am frustrated with the time it takes for each new step. So this entire discussion is becoming non-meaningful to me as I wont be worrying about what either of you are doing when I install standalone. So all this discussion is for someone else, but up until the 2l B7's you guys havent made the best products. If you now have someone who is a tuner and not an engineer trying to be a tuner, and the great new SW tuning tools that you say, then go back and make some decent chips that dont knock and make some real power! The guys on this list will then be justified in kissing your butts, and you will have walked the walk that matches your talk. You are sounding like typical engineers talking about your great science while your buildings collapse.
SOOOOO I will end my portion of this diatribe, and say put up or shut up. Re-engeneer some of your old chips to be competitive and then you will be doing your customers a favor, and give them a real deal to upgrade. I am beyond needing your help, but most would appreciate your backing up the talk. I would be happy to view your product as inexpensive rather than cheap, and will give you the credit you deserve if you do. Try to be more like Javad at 034-efi or Roy Hall at Autronics and let your product exceed the hype.
Please surprise me, show me you can do more than you say. I will give you credit when you do!
Rod
12-22-2005, 06:55 AM
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Quit slinging snot! Tell us all what you can NOW do that others cant. Talk is cheap!
Tell everyone how I am wrong! What innovations! What #'s! Hot air only pulls back timing. I am finding this rather typical of your company, and being a good 'Merikan, I want you to lead - not the Europeans - but the track record refutes your statements to date. This is giving you a chance to tout your tech. and newly found expertise - go for it, I beleive people can change.
Give examples! I am giving you a chance to give examples of your superior technologies. What have you done to improve the state of Audi tuning? This if your forum, give examples, this is your chance. Throw it out and let your public decide. You guys are the engineers, dazzle us with your innovation! Tell me about the new secret tuning methods. I will give you your due if it is deserved!
Last comment whatever you reply. Your chance to say what you wish without an informed comeback. Put it on paper - then live up to it and you will be my heros. And my apologies for refering to you as being GA boyz, I am sure you AL boyz resent this. But no matter what I will never buy a used car in Alabama again.
Rod
Give examples! I am giving you a chance to give examples of your superior technologies. What have you done to improve the state of Audi tuning? This if your forum, give examples, this is your chance. Throw it out and let your public decide. You guys are the engineers, dazzle us with your innovation! Tell me about the new secret tuning methods. I will give you your due if it is deserved!
Last comment whatever you reply. Your chance to say what you wish without an informed comeback. Put it on paper - then live up to it and you will be my heros. And my apologies for refering to you as being GA boyz, I am sure you AL boyz resent this. But no matter what I will never buy a used car in Alabama again.
Rod