Oil on spark plugs
02-06-2015, 07:33 AM
#1
Oil on spark plugs
The first time I used my new extractor I removed the drain plug afterwards to see how effective it was and I was impressed. I used it for the second time recently but I apparently failed to remove about a quart of oil before adding fresh fluid. I dumped 8 quarts in then started the vehicle so I could check the level before adding the last quart but it was over the high mark. I then used the extractor to get the level where it should be.
After driving for two days I gave it full throttle on the highway and my MIL flashed. A scan showed a misfire on 4 and 6. I went to swap coil packs and noticed oil in all cylinders. I cleaned it up and the misfire # 6 went away but #4 remains. Does it sound like a gasket or ring problem at this point? I had my oil separator replaced, valves cleaned and #7 injector replaced less than a year ago due to a misfire on #7.
After driving for two days I gave it full throttle on the highway and my MIL flashed. A scan showed a misfire on 4 and 6. I went to swap coil packs and noticed oil in all cylinders. I cleaned it up and the misfire # 6 went away but #4 remains. Does it sound like a gasket or ring problem at this point? I had my oil separator replaced, valves cleaned and #7 injector replaced less than a year ago due to a misfire on #7.
02-06-2015, 07:56 AM
#2
AudiWorld Super User
If it is 4.2 engine (?) it takes 8 quarts all together. From your post it looks like you where ready to add ninth quart? That short overfilling won't hurt anything. I also believe that you found oil around spark plugs not in cylinders as you state. Oil can get there if the gasket is broken.
02-06-2015, 08:06 AM
#3
AudiWorld Super User
What motor? Ideas
What motor and year? You never say. I can guess 4.2 though, but I don't know if it's port injected or FSI. The valve cleaning reference makes me think FSI. Vaguely wondered too if it was an S8/V10.
I don't follow what you say on oil quantity, but sounds like the extractor idea is not the hot set up for you. By my math, its an 8 quart set up in a port injected 4.2, if that is what it is, but it is just under 9 in FSI. [Ed. note: per the sticky it is really important to spec what car and motor you have...] You put 8 quarts in and expected to put in another, but already of found it overfull? Doesn't add up, literally if port injected. Even if fully drained, you were headed for 9 quarts in an 8 quart motor... Or, is it a V10 or V8 FSI?? Does the extractor have any kind of scale on it, or the final jugs you put it in? Since you are looking for 8 quarts out and 8 in (4.2 40V/port), getting it to the final disposal jugs--typically a gallon/four quarts is a pretty easy double check. Filter shouldn't have even a pint left behind in it.
Meantime, I can't be sure the overfill had anything to do with the issues you are seeing now. BTW, check the oil before any start first with a change; you are of course looking for full read on dipstick but not more. Then post start check it again if some of it went into the oil filter; usually not more than a fraction of a quart...if you changed filter that is (you didn't say that explicitly).
For now backing up a step or two to basics, if port injected (through 2006), I would put the max. Techron into it--two 12 oz. bottles or one 20 oz. basically--and run that. If FSI, not so much you can realistically do to get oil out of intake area. In either case, I would pull all the plugs and replace them given what you are finding, and check them all. If oil is generalized all through plugs, that suggests it is not internal motor (a good thing), but rather an issue somewhere in the oil vapor related components. And by the way, seems to me if it is bad enough to be fouling plugs, you are likely seeing some oil smoke and some meaningful oil consumption. Regardless, I would inspect the whole oil vapor system. Look at the PCV functioning and the suck valve--a Y shaped sort of piece of plastic you should find where two lines come together into one in back of the motor somewhere; has a one way function to it too. It's on my W12 and was on my 2000 A6 4.2, so I expect it is on yours too. Are you also sure the oil separator was replaced and not the PCV valve? The oil separator is a basic mesh sort of a plate purely physical in nature buried under the manifold under a cover in the V, if it is like my old A6 40V 4.2. If it were a W12, the separator is a distinct part on the manifold sides, and maybe (guessing) for the V10's too?
I don't follow what you say on oil quantity, but sounds like the extractor idea is not the hot set up for you. By my math, its an 8 quart set up in a port injected 4.2, if that is what it is, but it is just under 9 in FSI. [Ed. note: per the sticky it is really important to spec what car and motor you have...] You put 8 quarts in and expected to put in another, but already of found it overfull? Doesn't add up, literally if port injected. Even if fully drained, you were headed for 9 quarts in an 8 quart motor... Or, is it a V10 or V8 FSI?? Does the extractor have any kind of scale on it, or the final jugs you put it in? Since you are looking for 8 quarts out and 8 in (4.2 40V/port), getting it to the final disposal jugs--typically a gallon/four quarts is a pretty easy double check. Filter shouldn't have even a pint left behind in it.
Meantime, I can't be sure the overfill had anything to do with the issues you are seeing now. BTW, check the oil before any start first with a change; you are of course looking for full read on dipstick but not more. Then post start check it again if some of it went into the oil filter; usually not more than a fraction of a quart...if you changed filter that is (you didn't say that explicitly).
For now backing up a step or two to basics, if port injected (through 2006), I would put the max. Techron into it--two 12 oz. bottles or one 20 oz. basically--and run that. If FSI, not so much you can realistically do to get oil out of intake area. In either case, I would pull all the plugs and replace them given what you are finding, and check them all. If oil is generalized all through plugs, that suggests it is not internal motor (a good thing), but rather an issue somewhere in the oil vapor related components. And by the way, seems to me if it is bad enough to be fouling plugs, you are likely seeing some oil smoke and some meaningful oil consumption. Regardless, I would inspect the whole oil vapor system. Look at the PCV functioning and the suck valve--a Y shaped sort of piece of plastic you should find where two lines come together into one in back of the motor somewhere; has a one way function to it too. It's on my W12 and was on my 2000 A6 4.2, so I expect it is on yours too. Are you also sure the oil separator was replaced and not the PCV valve? The oil separator is a basic mesh sort of a plate purely physical in nature buried under the manifold under a cover in the V, if it is like my old A6 40V 4.2. If it were a W12, the separator is a distinct part on the manifold sides, and maybe (guessing) for the V10's too?
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 02-06-2015 at 08:31 AM.
02-06-2015, 08:37 AM
#4
AudiWorld Super User
Later post on inside or outside
Now reading Misha's reply, I'm not even sure where you found the oil. Inside on the plug tips, or outside on the plug base and thread area? If the former, see my first reply. If the latter, you are crossing cylinder banks (4, 6 and 7) whether its a V8 or a V10, so I'm scratching my head there too. Easy to conclude it's an issue with a valve cover gasket or other seals, but crossing both banks/heads coincidentally seems farther fetched. Or basic oil spill or badly leaking vapor line or some such all over top of motor, but again far fetched.
See if any of the reply ideas make sense, but perhaps restating exactly the issue would help us all--which exact motor and year, inside or outside on plugs, whether separator or PCV valve replaced, any oil smoke or oil consumption noted, etc
See if any of the reply ideas make sense, but perhaps restating exactly the issue would help us all--which exact motor and year, inside or outside on plugs, whether separator or PCV valve replaced, any oil smoke or oil consumption noted, etc
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 02-06-2015 at 08:40 AM.
02-06-2015, 01:33 PM
#5
If it is 4.2 engine (?) it takes 8 quarts all together. From your post it looks like you where ready to add ninth quart? That short overfilling won't hurt anything. I also believe that you found oil around spark plugs not in cylinders as you state. Oil can get there if the gasket is broken.
Now reading Misha's reply, I'm not even sure where you found the oil. Inside on the plug tips, or outside on the plug base and thread area? If the former, see my first reply. If the latter, you are crossing cylinder banks (4, 6 and 7) whether its a V8 or a V10, so I'm scratching my head there too. Easy to conclude it's an issue with a valve cover gasket or other seals, but crossing both banks/heads coincidentally seems farther fetched. Or basic oil spill or badly leaking vapor line or some such all over top of motor, but again far fetched.
See if any of the reply ideas make sense, but perhaps restating exactly the issue would help us all--which exact motor and year, inside or outside on plugs, whether separator or PCV valve replaced, any oil smoke or oil consumption noted, etc
See if any of the reply ideas make sense, but perhaps restating exactly the issue would help us all--which exact motor and year, inside or outside on plugs, whether separator or PCV valve replaced, any oil smoke or oil consumption noted, etc
The misfire on #4 and #6 may have nothing to do with this topic, but I became aware of the codes after the recent oil change when I slammed on the accelerator for about 5 seconds. Note: The misfire on #7 was only apparent when slamming on the accelerator also, normal driving showed no indication. I haven't noticed any smoke and in my one year of ownership I've added a little over a quart in 10k miles of driving.
Does the extractor have any kind of scale on it, or the final jugs you put it in? BTW, check the oil before any start first with a change; you are of course looking for full read on dipstick but not more. Then post start check it again if some of it went into the oil filter; usually not more than a fraction of a quart...if you changed filter that is (you didn't say that explicitly).
Look at the PCV functioning and the suck valve--a Y shaped sort of piece of plastic you should find where two lines come together into one in back of the motor somewhere; has a one way function to it too.
Look at the PCV functioning and the suck valve--a Y shaped sort of piece of plastic you should find where two lines come together into one in back of the motor somewhere; has a one way function to it too.
Hope this is more clear
02-06-2015, 01:52 PM
#6
AudiWorld Super User
So if you have oil on the tips of your coils, then it's not internal. Great news. I would suspect the valve cover gaskets leaking oil into the spark plug valley.
02-06-2015, 03:03 PM
#7
Ok, doesn't sound to bad. If there are signs of oil on the internal threaded side of the plug what could be a possible cause. I did see oil on the threaded side but not much, I'm hoping it got there will removing the plug.
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02-06-2015, 06:32 PM
#8
AudiWorld Super User
Yes, valve cover gaskets are likely. More...
or rather the seals that close off the spark plug ports that are cast through the valve cover. You have to pull the valve covers to get to those seals anyway, and they are included in many valve cover gasket sets I have gotten over the years for Audi motors.
The oil on the plug threads is probably there from unscrewing them with the pooled oil getting on the threads as you backed them out. Look at the tips to confirm. If they are wet, black and somewhat clogged up with oily deposits, that is a motor (or pretty major oil vapor system) issue fouling plugs. If instead the plug tips are dry and lightly powdery covered in a shade between gray and tan, that is normal. And if the latter, then if the threads had oil on them, figure it was just some that got on them during their removal.
If it is the valve cover plug seals, you will end up taking off all the coils and removing plugs for the relevant side/cylinder head. I would just change out the plugs (unless close to new now) and clean everything up after inspecting on one or both heads (depending on which had oil messes). Do realize though the misfire issue may still be independent. If the coils had inches of oil I could see how they could short and give the misfire. If that happened by the way, you maybe should replace the affected coil packs too. If just a tiny bit at the base of the plug only, seems less likely to be the source of a misfire.
The oil on the plug threads is probably there from unscrewing them with the pooled oil getting on the threads as you backed them out. Look at the tips to confirm. If they are wet, black and somewhat clogged up with oily deposits, that is a motor (or pretty major oil vapor system) issue fouling plugs. If instead the plug tips are dry and lightly powdery covered in a shade between gray and tan, that is normal. And if the latter, then if the threads had oil on them, figure it was just some that got on them during their removal.
If it is the valve cover plug seals, you will end up taking off all the coils and removing plugs for the relevant side/cylinder head. I would just change out the plugs (unless close to new now) and clean everything up after inspecting on one or both heads (depending on which had oil messes). Do realize though the misfire issue may still be independent. If the coils had inches of oil I could see how they could short and give the misfire. If that happened by the way, you maybe should replace the affected coil packs too. If just a tiny bit at the base of the plug only, seems less likely to be the source of a misfire.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 02-06-2015 at 06:36 PM.
02-10-2015, 05:01 AM
#9
Placed and order for valve cover gaskets from audiusaparts and they called stating Audi doesn't make a gasket for the left side. In order to change the left gasket I would have to buy a whole new cover for $471.20. This doesn't sound right, looking at the cover I don't see why a replacement gasket wouldn't be available. Is there something special about the left side or should I just look elsewhere?
02-10-2015, 06:53 AM
#10
AudiWorld Senior Member
Placed and order for valve cover gaskets from audiusaparts and they called stating Audi doesn't make a gasket for the left side. In order to change the left gasket I would have to buy a whole new cover for $471.20. This doesn't sound right, looking at the cover I don't see why a replacement gasket wouldn't be available. Is there something special about the left side or should I just look elsewhere?
I know from a post by A8 LOOONG, (https://www.audiworld.com/forums/a8-...leaks-2877435/) that the D3 S8 right hand side VC gasket can be expensive if bought directly off the shelf. But he found a work around for it.
Good luck.