Snowy roads
12-24-2016, 09:20 AM
#21
AudiWorld Super User
Is 4Matic full time though? Always thought 4 Matic was at its essence a clutch based on demand system. So permanent rwd, with the front axle brought into play when slip is detected or the electronics deem it necessary. If so then as an awd system it's inferior to Quattro which is true full time awd as it has 3 diffs (100% drive goes through the center TORSEN diff) and is a heck of a lot more durable as it has no clutches to wear out or electronics to fail.
Now there are probably many different versions of awd system that come under the 4Matic brand, much like with Quattro. As the system in the G-class is totally different to that in the E-class. But at its essence I'm not sure that the version used in the sedans is permanent 3 diff awd like Quattro is. For example the new AMG 4Matic system can disconnect the front axle completely for drift mode. There's no doubt certain other advantages to a clutch based system, but they are much more complex and reliant on electronics and clutches to function, and hence more likely to fail compared to Quattro.
4Matic = Problematic (you see what I did there?)
Now there are probably many different versions of awd system that come under the 4Matic brand, much like with Quattro. As the system in the G-class is totally different to that in the E-class. But at its essence I'm not sure that the version used in the sedans is permanent 3 diff awd like Quattro is. For example the new AMG 4Matic system can disconnect the front axle completely for drift mode. There's no doubt certain other advantages to a clutch based system, but they are much more complex and reliant on electronics and clutches to function, and hence more likely to fail compared to Quattro.
4Matic = Problematic (you see what I did there?)
12-24-2016, 09:22 AM
#22
AudiWorld Super User
I am no longer running Quattro either.... I am running Alpins PA4's and this instead.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kncxi1AolY
12-24-2016, 11:17 AM
#24
AudiWorld Super User
You are right. There are different versions. One of them is almost same as Audi's. Only two differences: no Torsen (which is pretty useless without EPC anyways) and front differential is moved forward so the weight distribution is much better. But one with variable clutch engaging front drive is nicer. Better fuel economy, better handling, better braking. You can see it in house. Porsche has it. About longevity ... there is always Camry.
Last edited by MP4.2+6.0; 12-24-2016 at 11:38 AM.
12-24-2016, 11:44 AM
#25
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Torsen makes a huge difference. I can't say I'm an expert with all the others, but all the others that engage after slipping starts, that I have driven, don't compare. I'm always uneasy when I feel it break loose before engaging.
I stopped in a Licoln dealer the other night to check out the new Continental. ....Very nice car. The AWD system is like other Fords. It's only awd when needed. I didn't drive one yet. It will be interesting to see how it handles.
I've also heard that the new Q5 will drop the Torsen in favor of the "part time" system. SQ5 excluded. . Big mistake in my opinion. All to get 1mpg more.
I stopped in a Licoln dealer the other night to check out the new Continental. ....Very nice car. The AWD system is like other Fords. It's only awd when needed. I didn't drive one yet. It will be interesting to see how it handles.
I've also heard that the new Q5 will drop the Torsen in favor of the "part time" system. SQ5 excluded. . Big mistake in my opinion. All to get 1mpg more.
12-24-2016, 12:06 PM
#26
AudiWorld Wiseguy
I am no longer running Quattro either.... I am running Alpins PA4's and this instead.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Kncxi1AolY
Quattro TORSEN based system can, and as its full time there is zero delay in engagement, and no need for electronics to calculate how much it needs to engage.
Last edited by dvs_dave; 12-24-2016 at 12:35 PM.
12-24-2016, 09:56 PM
#27
AudiWorld Super User
Not really. Torsen transfers 2-3 times more torque to the side with grip, so if one axle has zero grip it transfers zero grip to the other, meaning that axle with no grip is spinning and one with grip is doing nothing. Only help there comes from ABS braking spinning wheals. I wonder how many rotations/yards before it engages and how subtly is that engagement.
AWD has problem with braking as it transfers torque and interferes with ABS. Things get much worst with LSD.
AWD has problem with braking as it transfers torque and interferes with ABS. Things get much worst with LSD.
12-24-2016, 10:34 PM
#28
AudiWorld Super User
Quattro TORSEN based system can, and as its full time there is zero delay in engagement, and no need for electronics to calculate how much it needs to engage.
12-25-2016, 04:34 AM
#29
AudiWorld Super User
My son's TT has the Haldex system. The biggest issue I see is the fact that the goop has to be replaced at 40,000 miles or else the system basically stops working and you have a FWD vehicle. He had to get towed out od a ditch when he found out he only had FWD on a glare ice dirt road. Only a 4WD tow truck could be used. Extra charge applies.
As far as the maximum 50% torque deal, it isn't too big a deal on a small vehicle like a TT or Golf. I like the system on the A8's but many have said the the original Quattro, with two manually locking differentials like I had on my '87 C3 was the best. Torsen was added in '89 I think.
That system was amazing.
As far as the maximum 50% torque deal, it isn't too big a deal on a small vehicle like a TT or Golf. I like the system on the A8's but many have said the the original Quattro, with two manually locking differentials like I had on my '87 C3 was the best. Torsen was added in '89 I think.
That system was amazing.
12-25-2016, 05:52 AM
#30
AudiWorld Super User
My son's TT has the Haldex system. The biggest issue I see is the fact that the goop has to be replaced at 40,000 miles or else the system basically stops working and you have a FWD vehicle. He had to get towed out od a ditch when he found out he only had FWD on a glare ice dirt road. Only a 4WD tow truck could be used. Extra charge applies.
As far as the maximum 50% torque deal, it isn't too big a deal on a small vehicle like a TT or Golf. I like the system on the A8's but many have said the the original Quattro, with two manually locking differentials like I had on my '87 C3 was the best. Torsen was added in '89 I think.
That system was amazing.
As far as the maximum 50% torque deal, it isn't too big a deal on a small vehicle like a TT or Golf. I like the system on the A8's but many have said the the original Quattro, with two manually locking differentials like I had on my '87 C3 was the best. Torsen was added in '89 I think.
That system was amazing.