The G22 BMW 4 Series Grille is Still Ugly.
06-15-2020, 07:57 AM
#71
AudiWorld Super User
LOL, there's a lot of plastic in all cars and some hide it better than others, but I'm not sure it's fair to compare an optional leather dash that few people will buy to the standard Audi interior, no? I found Audi to actually have a lot of solid feeling metal *****, of course it's been a year since I last car shopped and checked out other makes and they always leap frog each other. I think a lot of this is subjective. I look at the AMG interior below and sat in something similar, but I don't see this as strikingly better than an RS5. I like it, it's nice, but I think perhaps some people are drawn to the overall design first and then kind of interpret some of the details more harshly than others based on how much they like it overall. Like I might notice this cheap handle or **** here and there in this car but it won't bother me in this other car. Some things I always find tacky like the seat controls on the door.
I do notice the difference in overall plastic use with Lexus though, which is a car maker that's price within reach of the Germans, but when I sit in one I notice most of the ***** and accents really are plastic whereas in a German car the same part would be chrome or metal. For a few years Audi had the chrome-tipped window controls where BMW had all-plastic parts and that made a big difference to me. Overall use of more expensive materials seems to go up with every generation for every car maker. The B9 is getting older than its rivals now so may have got leap-frogged by now. I didn't like the big horizontal fake vent initially at all, in fact the whole horizontal design was a turn off for me coming from a B8. But I changed my mind completely on it now. I don't mind the vent and I've really grown to love the interior. But liking a particular design and shapes, that's completely subjective, someone else might hate it.
I think the term "retro" gets overused, even if you say retro modern. I see nothing of this old car in the new 4-series grille. Just because this one has two stretched ellipses and the new one has two octagons to me the new one doesn't evoke the old one. Literally nothing about them is similar other than the grille is divided in two. I'm not sure that alone can be "retro" anymore than having two headlights. I don't think not being retro is a bad thing, seems to me like some car makers go too far to try to romanticize a car that was never particularly good looking, like a 2002, and convince us that the new car is supposed to remind us of some old car. Especially 80's boxy family cars, I would say that was the lowest point as far as automotive design.
I do notice the difference in overall plastic use with Lexus though, which is a car maker that's price within reach of the Germans, but when I sit in one I notice most of the ***** and accents really are plastic whereas in a German car the same part would be chrome or metal. For a few years Audi had the chrome-tipped window controls where BMW had all-plastic parts and that made a big difference to me. Overall use of more expensive materials seems to go up with every generation for every car maker. The B9 is getting older than its rivals now so may have got leap-frogged by now. I didn't like the big horizontal fake vent initially at all, in fact the whole horizontal design was a turn off for me coming from a B8. But I changed my mind completely on it now. I don't mind the vent and I've really grown to love the interior. But liking a particular design and shapes, that's completely subjective, someone else might hate it.
I think the term "retro" gets overused, even if you say retro modern. I see nothing of this old car in the new 4-series grille. Just because this one has two stretched ellipses and the new one has two octagons to me the new one doesn't evoke the old one. Literally nothing about them is similar other than the grille is divided in two. I'm not sure that alone can be "retro" anymore than having two headlights. I don't think not being retro is a bad thing, seems to me like some car makers go too far to try to romanticize a car that was never particularly good looking, like a 2002, and convince us that the new car is supposed to remind us of some old car. Especially 80's boxy family cars, I would say that was the lowest point as far as automotive design.
As for the interiors, yes plastic is certainly the dominant material these days, but some is obvious and others is not. Like the use of faux leather, which is technically plastic/synthetic or CF/wood veneer on top of a plastic panel. While there is still plastic underneath or plastic used in the material it looks more high quality and premium. The BMW full leather interior is arguably an extra cost, but leather seats in the Audis are an extra cost, too and customers are willing to pay for it, so I don't see the full leather interior vs. just leather seats that much of a leap. To me it's more that Audi doesn't even offer it, unless you go all out and spring for Audi Individual where I believe you can get a full leather interior if one really wants it, but it'll cost you.
Last edited by superswiss; 06-15-2020 at 09:07 AM.
06-15-2020, 08:20 AM
#72
Club AutoUnion
(I think I’m in that same generation you are describing.)— John
06-15-2020, 09:36 AM
#73
AudiWorld Member
06-15-2020, 09:48 AM
#74
Club AutoUnion
Yep, among many others. This was the era of vinyl roofs, including "landau" half-roofs, opera windows, egregiously bad fake wood, and more. Perhaps the worst though was the phase General Motors went through in trying to gussy up the J-platform as the Cimarron.
How manyVinyl Roofs were destroyed by taking those cars through Great Adventures Wild Safari?
Oh, the bad old days.
— John
06-15-2020, 10:42 AM
#75
"retro" is a reference...
As I've mentioned before, both BMW and Audi are trading on futurist themes from the 1930s. BMW characteristically takes it to the point of edginess. I actually like what BMW is doing here, but I'm not surprised by the Audiphile disapproval here.
06-15-2020, 11:06 AM
#76
AudiWorld Senior Member
Thread Starter
BMW took the original kidney grille and modernized it. In my eyes, it really hasn't worked out too well for them. I've owned multiple BMW's up and down the range. I think sticking to the 8 series grille that was wide and edgy would have been better. I also love what Mercedes has done with their interiors.
06-15-2020, 11:25 AM
#77
the devil is the details...
BMW took the original kidney grille and modernized it. In my eyes, it really hasn't worked out too well for them. I've owned multiple BMW's up and down the range. I think sticking to the 8 series grille that was wide and edgy would have been better. I also love what Mercedes has done with their interiors.
06-15-2020, 12:12 PM
#78
AudiWorld Senior Member
Yeah, I'm not personally a fan of retro styling. I was just trying to shed some light on the origin of the design. I watched a video from a German car magazine where they interviewed a designer from BMW and talked about the whole design and the grill design according to the designer is supposed to hark back to the past. Some potential customers definitely respond to that.
As for the interiors, yes plastic is certainly the dominant material these days, but some is obvious and others is not. Like the use of faux leather, which is technically plastic/synthetic or CF/wood veneer on top of a plastic panel. While there is still plastic underneath or plastic used in the material it looks more high quality and premium. The BMW full leather interior is arguably an extra cost, but leather seats in the Audis are an extra cost, too and customers are willing to pay for it, so I don't see the full leather interior vs. just leather seats that much of a leap. To me it's more that Audi doesn't even offer it, unless you go all out and spring for Audi Individual where I believe you can get a full leather interior if one really wants it, but it'll cost you.
As far as leather being high end, that can be argued too. If you watch those Autogefuehl reviews, that Thomas guy is really anti-leather and I think he kind of represents a trend. His angle is the animal cruelty but as a meat-eater myself I respond mainly to the fact that good synthetic materials require less care and last longer. The Lexus Nuluxe seats look and feel as good as leather to me, and I would have paid extra to get Alcantara instead of Nappa leather on my S5 if I had the option because I really prefer the durability, feel, and low maintenance of the Alcantara (for seats anyway, based on 10 years of owning a B8 with Alcantara seats - steering wheel is another story). I don't mind if something is synthetic if it looks good and feels good to the touch. I would indeed be concerned about a leather dashboard's durability, where it gets bombarded by sunlight constantly. On the other hand, you don't sit on a dashboard, so less wear... I'd have to research it.
06-15-2020, 12:12 PM
#79
AudiWorld Super User
I doubt most consumers know or care what the historical inspiration is for a given design. In the case of this grille, it reminds me far more of a disproportionately large butt or beaver teeth.
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Nikon1 (06-15-2020)
06-15-2020, 12:22 PM
#80
As far as leather being high end, that can be argued too. If you watch those Autogefuehl reviews, that Thomas guy is really anti-leather and I think he kind of represents a trend. His angle is the animal cruelty but as a meat-eater myself I respond mainly to the fact that good synthetic materials require less care and last longer. The Lexus Nuluxe seats look and feel as good as leather to me, and I would have paid extra to get Alcantara instead of Nappa leather on my S5 if I had the option because I really prefer the durability, feel, and low maintenance of the Alcantara (for seats anyway, based on 10 years of owning a B8 with Alcantara seats - steering wheel is another story). I don't mind if something is synthetic if it looks good and feels good to the touch. I would indeed be concerned about a leather dashboard's durability, where it gets bombarded by sunlight constantly. On the other hand, you don't sit on a dashboard, so less wear... I'd have to research it.