(noob) switching 2 synth oil any sugg?
06-09-2004, 11:31 AM
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This is a list compiled by bhvrdr in the B6 forum.
I'm using Motul 8100 X-cess 5W-40 right now; will probably try E-tech 0W-40 next time.<ul><li><a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~wotmotorsport/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/myfavoriteoils-2.htm">http://home.earthlink.net/~wotmotorsport/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/myfavoriteoils-2.htm</a</li></ul>
06-10-2004, 07:08 PM
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Re: (noob) switching 2 synth oil any sugg? Yes but this is only addressed to your question. and you
Oh boy, open a can of worms with this one. I've gotten a bit of abuse for my suggestions but here goes and I'll also say this right up front, search the web, find any and everything you can from Car mag. reviews and independant tests before making your final decision. I say this because everyone has their favorites which can cloud the issue.
I've gotten these figures from an independant testing firm and have done a lot of research and tried different types over the years, I'm 46 and have worked on cars sence I was 18 when I started to take auto shop in college and I swear by Amsoil. They just started production of what they call their European synthetic oils geared for Euro cars and to do this they have to pass the required tests that qualify an oil like the API specs U.S. oils have to adhear to so it's just not the same oil in a different can with an advertising twist as I've been accused of selling the last time I put this oil up here. Funny as I did it because it was hashed around a bit about mobil 1 having a euro oil and so I saw Amsoil doing it and thought people would be glad to know, but one was glad to bash it right off without much thought involved but oh well... I don't sell their oil either, I just use it. It's a 5W-40 Weight with up to 20,000mi change range I think.
Also this is not just fluke advertising as European car's do have extended oil change in their owner's manuals and say for synthetic's this can be done with no harm if it meets the Euro specs I'd imagine. Only common sence on that one.
Mercedes was sued by a few people, maybe a lot, I don't have the exact figures on this but they have a 20,000mi oil change in their manual as well but they didn't really specify synthetics properly and so people did this with Pet. oils and ruined the motors so law suits came a-following.
I have a wide range of test figures for their TBN and 4ball wear tests and so on with amsoil, mobil 1, Valvoline (which seems also to be a pretty good oil from the charts I have) and a long list of others. Supprisingly Mobil 1 didn't fair all that well in a lot of them Valvoline would be my second choice of synthetics by these tests but there are other good oils that arn't on these charts. Red line is good oil but they don't have their figures here but they should have them at their site. Just do not use their racing oil as it doesn't have cleaning additives and is used for short periods.
I'd use amsoil or Mobil 1 oil filters. They both use glass fiber materials and they are equal in quality and cost, around 8 to 10.00 ea. They trap a finer particulate or dirt than regular filter types. I also use Amsoil's 2stage foam air cleaners that use tacky oil on them. They are pretty nice, they have one layer of larger holes to trap larger and the second stage using very small pockets to trap what isn't stoped at the first layer so they filter well and don't clog very fast and I prefer them to one other oil type but I can never remember their name. K&N I think, they only have the single layer type so can clog faster but they still really are a very good air filter just the same, I just like Amsoils approach better, it's more thought out to make sure the very fine layer is blocked so it doesn't clog the whole filter quickly. If your very serious the series 2000 amsoil oil is the best but is expensive. It has more anti friction additives and better additives then their next type of oil and are much better than the numbers I've posted down below here. They also make a 7500mi synthetic oil for people who are worried about long oil change periods and for oil change sites such as Jiffy lube who don't feel it's in their best interest to sell 25,000mi oil either., their additives arn't as robust but I'd put it against any synthetic out there.
My experience with this oil in my Audi is remarkable and is why I recomend it so highly.
When I got the car from my cousin he ran reg. Pet. based oil Castrol GTX 20W-50 and changed it every 3k. It still had sludge cloging the crankcase breather tube to the point of total blockage. I cleaned it out the best I could at the time and the synthetic's have left it spotless as I took it off later to soak it in gas to clean it further as I didn't have the stuff to do it when I cleaned it the first time.
The big difference was when I got the car my cousin had changed the oil so it was clean but still at cold startup the hyd. lifters took up to 10 sec. max to stop clicking, that is max mind you, sometimes it would taper of in 5 or 7 but never in less than 5 sec. did they quiet out. It bothered me and my cousin said he was used to it as it did it that way from the factory new. With the Amsoil 10W-40 that I put in they were quiet in less than 2 sec. and most times less than one second was all the time it took. That made a huge difference to me and it blew my cousin away, he had to come over and see it first hand. This is very important as cold startups is where you will see 90% or more of an engine's wear. I am running Amsoil in the tranny and rear end also now and have increased my gas mileage 4mpg at a min. amount but that is running it in all aspects of the car's lub. If I just ran it in the engine I do not know how much better the gas mileage would be. The oil temp reading is also lower at full operating temps. Not a lot but noticeable according to that gauge on the dash.
Now PLEASE don't take what I say as what came from GOD to the masses about synthetic oils, This is just my personal results. My car has 245k miles on it, it is not leaking oil after switching from Pet. to synthetics. It runs better, smoother, quieter and gets better gas mileage. That is true. I have ran mobil 1 and did see more oil useage but in another car, a Mazda 626 and it wasn't as smooth running as Amsoil. I ran Amsoil in my Dat 280Z that I used to cone race at airports, had 3-2bbl mikuni's, med/large cam and it was a screamer and it never started to smoke or burn oil from very hard use running this oil so I am very pleased by it and have had a long time experience using it.
BUT PLEASE AGAIN, go around the internet, find tests done by independant folks that know what they are doing, do not put too much into what you get out of these forums. Though people like me and others swear by their oils they are not doing the tests that tell the total story but take it with a grain of truth anyway if they are honest and enough people agree with the use of oil types after using different brands to build a reference from one type to another to help make the final choice on what brands to use. Try to get enough independant info and then make your choice, you will learn a lot about oils in the process, this is what I've done when I was asked if I wanted to buy Amsoil long ago along with all the oil additives that were comming out on the market like that Slick 50 junk and power punch. I saw my father's car ruined when that Arco Graphite crap came out and he used it, after that I started to take it serious that it is important to know what your putting into your engine. I got a lot of good reviews from auto parts stores and their machine shops back then as this was before the web and they didn't even sell the stuff on their shelfs. But go learn, make up your own mind and let me know what you decide on after this if you want to, I'd be curious. Try not to let price alone decide the oil as you do get what you pay for, for the most part and a cheap oil has less additives and poorer quality engineering in it's design. One thing also about Amsoil that helped make an impression with me, They put their tests out for everyone to see and also put the tests they did with name brand oils also. This is very rare with any other oils as they tend to say "our oil out performed compeating oils" but they never say who or what those oils are. It could have been veg. oil.. hahah.... Amsoil does and if it wasn't true they would not be in business now from the lawsuits that posting untrue results would bring about. Also the BBB and other goverment agencies that check out and make sure there isn't fraud in advertising like happened with slick 50 and other oils would have this stuff yanked as well. They have been in the synthetic oil business for car's longer than anyone and are getting more and more popular as time goes on. Sorry about the length and also, this is to Dwallen only and after the flack I've gotten over this I don't read replys on oil topic's anymore as I've lost what ever little patience I've had. This topic is as bad as religion and politics and I don't care for the insults and lack of research done before I get replies to what I post even when I state it's a prefrence with some research done to back up what I say from what I've been able to find and stress to go get other independant information so I'm getting pretty hostile but still I want to help people who ask. The others I'll just be getting madder and madder with unless they back up what they say with facts. Like my fathers truck going 240,000mi and running perfect with use of reg. oil stories, while may be true the year of that truck (1960's) it was rare to get even 100,000mi between valve jobs and rebuilds and it just happens to come up left a bad taste in my comuter screen. I don't need that kind of junk, there was only 1 engine back then I'd beleve out of faith and that is the dodge slant 6 and to people who know cars they would understand.
To Dwaller, I'll type in some of the test results that I've gotten ahold of if you want. If I can get this scanner working maybe I can figure out how to post it that way though I'm new to that kind of stuff and it may not work. I'll give you the basic numbers here though for Amsoil and the closest oils in these posted tests and mobil 1s in some if their are close with 5W-30 oils starting with Amsoils results:
Total Base number: 12.34 Valvoline 11.38 Mobil 1 8.57
Pour Point: -48deg Cel Mobil 1 -46deg C, not bad
Cold crank sim: 3590 @-25Cel. Penz came in first here, the lower the number here the better the engine turns over, the limit is 7000, mobil 1 3967 still not bad at all, Valvoline was next with 4142
4 ball wear test: .40, mobil 1 super syn was .60 and only castrol syntec came close with .45 and valvoline .55
High temp/high shear: 3.51 Valvoline 3.30 Mobil 1 3.30
Noack Volatility test: 4.86% Valvoline 7.03% mobil 1 8.92% The max for any oil in this test is 15% or less to pass, this means evaporation loss at high temp use.
Thin film Oxygen uptake test: >500 didn't break down in over 500min, mobil 1 broke down after 397 and penzoil syn, well get this, 159min, I'd make sure you never use that type of oil for short trips and stop and go driving or it will be sludge city Amsoil resists sludge better than most any other oils at least in the tests with the oils they tested with. NOTE, there may be other oils not on there that do better at these tests. Just because they weren't there doesn't mean they are better or worse but this is why it's important to go looking at other test results and numbers to compare them too, ok? This is the best I can do for you. I like this oil, I'll swear it's a very good oil to use from experience and they are well known to be a leader in synthetic oils ever sence they started in 1970, they have been at it a long time, it's all they do and so to do it poorly would put them out of business. Good luck and sorry for the very long post.
I've gotten these figures from an independant testing firm and have done a lot of research and tried different types over the years, I'm 46 and have worked on cars sence I was 18 when I started to take auto shop in college and I swear by Amsoil. They just started production of what they call their European synthetic oils geared for Euro cars and to do this they have to pass the required tests that qualify an oil like the API specs U.S. oils have to adhear to so it's just not the same oil in a different can with an advertising twist as I've been accused of selling the last time I put this oil up here. Funny as I did it because it was hashed around a bit about mobil 1 having a euro oil and so I saw Amsoil doing it and thought people would be glad to know, but one was glad to bash it right off without much thought involved but oh well... I don't sell their oil either, I just use it. It's a 5W-40 Weight with up to 20,000mi change range I think.
Also this is not just fluke advertising as European car's do have extended oil change in their owner's manuals and say for synthetic's this can be done with no harm if it meets the Euro specs I'd imagine. Only common sence on that one.
Mercedes was sued by a few people, maybe a lot, I don't have the exact figures on this but they have a 20,000mi oil change in their manual as well but they didn't really specify synthetics properly and so people did this with Pet. oils and ruined the motors so law suits came a-following.
I have a wide range of test figures for their TBN and 4ball wear tests and so on with amsoil, mobil 1, Valvoline (which seems also to be a pretty good oil from the charts I have) and a long list of others. Supprisingly Mobil 1 didn't fair all that well in a lot of them Valvoline would be my second choice of synthetics by these tests but there are other good oils that arn't on these charts. Red line is good oil but they don't have their figures here but they should have them at their site. Just do not use their racing oil as it doesn't have cleaning additives and is used for short periods.
I'd use amsoil or Mobil 1 oil filters. They both use glass fiber materials and they are equal in quality and cost, around 8 to 10.00 ea. They trap a finer particulate or dirt than regular filter types. I also use Amsoil's 2stage foam air cleaners that use tacky oil on them. They are pretty nice, they have one layer of larger holes to trap larger and the second stage using very small pockets to trap what isn't stoped at the first layer so they filter well and don't clog very fast and I prefer them to one other oil type but I can never remember their name. K&N I think, they only have the single layer type so can clog faster but they still really are a very good air filter just the same, I just like Amsoils approach better, it's more thought out to make sure the very fine layer is blocked so it doesn't clog the whole filter quickly. If your very serious the series 2000 amsoil oil is the best but is expensive. It has more anti friction additives and better additives then their next type of oil and are much better than the numbers I've posted down below here. They also make a 7500mi synthetic oil for people who are worried about long oil change periods and for oil change sites such as Jiffy lube who don't feel it's in their best interest to sell 25,000mi oil either., their additives arn't as robust but I'd put it against any synthetic out there.
My experience with this oil in my Audi is remarkable and is why I recomend it so highly.
When I got the car from my cousin he ran reg. Pet. based oil Castrol GTX 20W-50 and changed it every 3k. It still had sludge cloging the crankcase breather tube to the point of total blockage. I cleaned it out the best I could at the time and the synthetic's have left it spotless as I took it off later to soak it in gas to clean it further as I didn't have the stuff to do it when I cleaned it the first time.
The big difference was when I got the car my cousin had changed the oil so it was clean but still at cold startup the hyd. lifters took up to 10 sec. max to stop clicking, that is max mind you, sometimes it would taper of in 5 or 7 but never in less than 5 sec. did they quiet out. It bothered me and my cousin said he was used to it as it did it that way from the factory new. With the Amsoil 10W-40 that I put in they were quiet in less than 2 sec. and most times less than one second was all the time it took. That made a huge difference to me and it blew my cousin away, he had to come over and see it first hand. This is very important as cold startups is where you will see 90% or more of an engine's wear. I am running Amsoil in the tranny and rear end also now and have increased my gas mileage 4mpg at a min. amount but that is running it in all aspects of the car's lub. If I just ran it in the engine I do not know how much better the gas mileage would be. The oil temp reading is also lower at full operating temps. Not a lot but noticeable according to that gauge on the dash.
Now PLEASE don't take what I say as what came from GOD to the masses about synthetic oils, This is just my personal results. My car has 245k miles on it, it is not leaking oil after switching from Pet. to synthetics. It runs better, smoother, quieter and gets better gas mileage. That is true. I have ran mobil 1 and did see more oil useage but in another car, a Mazda 626 and it wasn't as smooth running as Amsoil. I ran Amsoil in my Dat 280Z that I used to cone race at airports, had 3-2bbl mikuni's, med/large cam and it was a screamer and it never started to smoke or burn oil from very hard use running this oil so I am very pleased by it and have had a long time experience using it.
BUT PLEASE AGAIN, go around the internet, find tests done by independant folks that know what they are doing, do not put too much into what you get out of these forums. Though people like me and others swear by their oils they are not doing the tests that tell the total story but take it with a grain of truth anyway if they are honest and enough people agree with the use of oil types after using different brands to build a reference from one type to another to help make the final choice on what brands to use. Try to get enough independant info and then make your choice, you will learn a lot about oils in the process, this is what I've done when I was asked if I wanted to buy Amsoil long ago along with all the oil additives that were comming out on the market like that Slick 50 junk and power punch. I saw my father's car ruined when that Arco Graphite crap came out and he used it, after that I started to take it serious that it is important to know what your putting into your engine. I got a lot of good reviews from auto parts stores and their machine shops back then as this was before the web and they didn't even sell the stuff on their shelfs. But go learn, make up your own mind and let me know what you decide on after this if you want to, I'd be curious. Try not to let price alone decide the oil as you do get what you pay for, for the most part and a cheap oil has less additives and poorer quality engineering in it's design. One thing also about Amsoil that helped make an impression with me, They put their tests out for everyone to see and also put the tests they did with name brand oils also. This is very rare with any other oils as they tend to say "our oil out performed compeating oils" but they never say who or what those oils are. It could have been veg. oil.. hahah.... Amsoil does and if it wasn't true they would not be in business now from the lawsuits that posting untrue results would bring about. Also the BBB and other goverment agencies that check out and make sure there isn't fraud in advertising like happened with slick 50 and other oils would have this stuff yanked as well. They have been in the synthetic oil business for car's longer than anyone and are getting more and more popular as time goes on. Sorry about the length and also, this is to Dwallen only and after the flack I've gotten over this I don't read replys on oil topic's anymore as I've lost what ever little patience I've had. This topic is as bad as religion and politics and I don't care for the insults and lack of research done before I get replies to what I post even when I state it's a prefrence with some research done to back up what I say from what I've been able to find and stress to go get other independant information so I'm getting pretty hostile but still I want to help people who ask. The others I'll just be getting madder and madder with unless they back up what they say with facts. Like my fathers truck going 240,000mi and running perfect with use of reg. oil stories, while may be true the year of that truck (1960's) it was rare to get even 100,000mi between valve jobs and rebuilds and it just happens to come up left a bad taste in my comuter screen. I don't need that kind of junk, there was only 1 engine back then I'd beleve out of faith and that is the dodge slant 6 and to people who know cars they would understand.
To Dwaller, I'll type in some of the test results that I've gotten ahold of if you want. If I can get this scanner working maybe I can figure out how to post it that way though I'm new to that kind of stuff and it may not work. I'll give you the basic numbers here though for Amsoil and the closest oils in these posted tests and mobil 1s in some if their are close with 5W-30 oils starting with Amsoils results:
Total Base number: 12.34 Valvoline 11.38 Mobil 1 8.57
Pour Point: -48deg Cel Mobil 1 -46deg C, not bad
Cold crank sim: 3590 @-25Cel. Penz came in first here, the lower the number here the better the engine turns over, the limit is 7000, mobil 1 3967 still not bad at all, Valvoline was next with 4142
4 ball wear test: .40, mobil 1 super syn was .60 and only castrol syntec came close with .45 and valvoline .55
High temp/high shear: 3.51 Valvoline 3.30 Mobil 1 3.30
Noack Volatility test: 4.86% Valvoline 7.03% mobil 1 8.92% The max for any oil in this test is 15% or less to pass, this means evaporation loss at high temp use.
Thin film Oxygen uptake test: >500 didn't break down in over 500min, mobil 1 broke down after 397 and penzoil syn, well get this, 159min, I'd make sure you never use that type of oil for short trips and stop and go driving or it will be sludge city Amsoil resists sludge better than most any other oils at least in the tests with the oils they tested with. NOTE, there may be other oils not on there that do better at these tests. Just because they weren't there doesn't mean they are better or worse but this is why it's important to go looking at other test results and numbers to compare them too, ok? This is the best I can do for you. I like this oil, I'll swear it's a very good oil to use from experience and they are well known to be a leader in synthetic oils ever sence they started in 1970, they have been at it a long time, it's all they do and so to do it poorly would put them out of business. Good luck and sorry for the very long post.
06-16-2004, 05:09 AM
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NEO or Redline
I use NEO, and think it's great.
Their spec's are on their site.<ul><li><a href="http://www.neosyntheticoil.com/">NEO</a></li></ul>
Their spec's are on their site.<ul><li><a href="http://www.neosyntheticoil.com/">NEO</a></li></ul>
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